[Mark Davies]

<font color='#000080'>Mark / Daz,

Some good points and well made.

I think we would all agree that the lack of a decent club structure around PADI training is probably the biggest issue, and we've discussed this elsewhere recently. If you are doing your training with your local dive shop it's so common to find that the only way you can get to go diving is by going on another course. I certainly found this to be the case.

When I'd gone as far as AOW and decided that it was enough training for me for the time being and that I just wanted to get experience in, I found I was mithering the instructor to let me come along on training sessions and just watch. Of course I wasn't a Rescue Diver or DM so I wasn't much use to him and was made to feel like I was in the way.

I then found myself under the pressure of &quot;well, if you're coming along why not do your rescue / nitrox / whatever course&quot;. My experience, I think, is typical, except that I was determined not to do any more courses. The result was that for a long time I did very little diving.

It is therefore inevitable that you're going to get PADI divers qualified to the highest levels who only seem to have dived on courses.

Yes Mark, I can see a solution being one of insisting on minimum numbers of dives before progressing to each stage. But as John pointed out, most PADI divers will find it very difficult to log-up those dives because there isn't a club around them to take them out. You'd perhaps end up with a couple of OW divers getting together and going to Capernwray over and over again just to log the numbers.

Which is why I said earlier that mere numbers of dives does not necessarily equate to competence.

String's experience reported here is a good example of how BSAC both succeeds and fails.

It might be taking him some time to progress his qualifications (an absolute age in comparison with PADI) but he seems perfectly satisfied with that. And why? Because he's still getting to go and dive regularly. I presume an 18m (?) depth limit is not too restricting for him, with enough good sites in that range to keep him occupied. And even though he is not progressing in qualifications he is still learning, in much the way that Mark described from his experiences. Success.

The failure is that after maybe 2 years regular diving and perhaps 100 - 150 dives he still might not be qualified to go and dive off a liveaboard in perfect conditions in the Red Sea. Why? Because the training is done &quot;as and when&quot; and is just fitted in around the diving. You then end up with a situation where theory is done in October and the dives done in April!

I'm sure that the best BSAC clubs are the best way to learn. As long as the club has a good training structure and sufficient instructors and priority is given to trainee development then it should be possible to progress trainees better than in String's experience.

Clubs like that surely exist. Many are not like that, though. We often share a pool with the local BSAC club. Time and again I see people coming along to have a try out with them, often with a view of getting qualified before going on holiday. They're then told of the time scales involved and are never seen again. The next day they're in the local dive shop booking a PADI course.

We need a happy medium - PADI training with a good club structure, BSAC branches with a professional training structure. They do both exist, just not everywhere.

In the meantime I think Lou's solution is a good one. Join a BSAC club and take your time over diving in the UK, but also go and train to PADI AOW so that you can go and enjoy those warm, blue water holidays.

Horses for courses!