Hiya
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| Originally Posted by cgrosart If the line breaks, deploy the search reel and conduct a search. A compass will help with this. Knowing the general direction of 'home' and using any flow direction gives huge clues, as with topography. |
Yes of course, my point being that if the CCR fails and you're back to OC, you're still back with the time limitations aspect so no point taking the mindset that a CCR makes it safer. Search reels don't always find the line quickly, as you know, it depends on the passage, nav errors are easy to make - look at the wrong turn taken by JM in the Ressel several years ago. A CCR only makes a cave dive logistically easier and it only makes it safer (time to solve a problem) until it fails. OC bailout is still crucial.
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| Originally Posted by cgrosart I can assure you that CCR is most definately not the way forward in the cave that I am pushing !! It simply won't fit  When Rick pushed the Fontaine de Truffe last year, he took his rebreather off at the terminal squeeze, switched to Open Circuit to pass the most nasty bit of the cave - then switched back to sidemounted rebreather again ! OC has it's place........We all used OC to support him. Mark's comments make it sound as if we are lucky to be alive. I'm sure this was not his intention. |
In context, it was a general comment aimed at beginner cave divers. CCR is the way forward for beginner "tourist" cave divers ( no offence meant by this). Why bother learning to cave dive in Mexico on OC now, there is simply no point unless you intend to dive tight sumps that will require OC to pass through - I know of no sumps in Mexico that would fit this description. I don't think it's a valid comparison to compare Rick's push dives at the Truffe, but if Mark hurries up, he might catch up
In any case, Rick is too tight to keep using OC and is using the Micro RBs now to get around having to use OC for tighter squeezes
the time is approaching rapidly when the advent of smaller and smaller units negates the need for OC to pass restrictions. I will be supporting Rick in France shortly (for some of the trip) and will stick with my normal mode of CCR, simply because there's no benefits to gain from doing it on OC and more logistical headaches in doing so. OC has it's place, in my view, for bailout but not for long OC penetration dives any more or for beginner cave divers to switch back from CCR to OC for a course. Why bother, from a logistic point of view (unless you're part of the DIR machine with huge resources available and too stubborn to admit that CCR is the way forward)
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| Originally Posted by cgrosart BTW - The reason Mark is getting a hard time is because of a previous thread where the argument for/against cave TRAINING on CCR was conducted. It has been done to death and been dredged up by the otherwise, good report. I just wish people would think before they make bold comments such as OC cave diving being dangerous. Especially when they have no experience of it. We use the tools for the job - one of these tools is Open Circuit. I once heard a quote from a cave diver who has been cave diving for 20 years on OC and is still cave diving at 62. He stated that these days, the risks of cave diving are 'manageable'. It just depends how you manage them! |
I haven't seen that. But the web is full of people commenting from a position of no context - my very first cave dive was on OC simply because at that time there was no rebreather small enough to fit. There is now. I'll take a look at the thread, sounds interesting!
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| Originally Posted by cgrosart For the reasons AnneMarie states regarding OC bailout, I think you'll find that the reason cave divers switch to CCR is so that they may go further and deeper than logistically possible on OC, or need extra time for working at depth i.e shoring up a boulder choke or drilling. They don't have a habit of doing it to make dives that are well within the limits of OC safer. But if using a RB makes Mark feel safer, then fine. So long as he is under no illusions, especially on the back of some good posts on these threads, that he may not always be. I don't think I can make fairer comment than that. |
Yep, absolutely agreed. The minute the CCR fails it's back to OC bailout, which is why prevention is better than cure.