Halcyon Eclipse vs Pioneer

[Beardy]

Now that I've made a foolof myself, I think it's time to move forward. I've been having an other look at wings and things. I quite like the idea of getting a backplate from either Phill or Woz and then getting the bladder seperatly. So anyway I've been looking at the Halcyon (among others) for single tanks, it'll be a while before I can afford a twinset, and they do two ranges of single wings, the eclips and the pioneer.

can anyone with experience of these tell me what the important differences are between thees two, I've read the web site and I can see that they are diffrent, but what does it mean, why is it important, and why would I need one over the other?

Also, how much lift should I be thinking about for my lardy 17.5 stone (ish!!) in a drybag diving with 14kg in fresh water and 16 in the briny, and a 15l tank.

I would have thought that I'll want the biggest bad ass SS back plate I can lay my hands on, as I currently have trouble with trim (feet down). Is there anything else I need to consider.

TinA

[divingniknaks]

Have you had a look at the DIRZONE Cub single wing ?

I know I was bound to say that but 'tis a mighty fine single tank wing and cheaper than the H stuff

[Davey Willo]

The best advice I can give, is spend a couple of hours with the guy who can supply you with what need and then back it all up with excellent service.

The man is Phil from DivingNikNaks and the wings he is selling match Halcyon in every respect other than cost.

I currently dive a Halcyon 55 doubles wing but I also intend to treat myself to a single wing and have already decided that I'll be dealing with Phil as I'm happy with the service provided, I've had a good look at the wings, including inside and I'm more than happy with the quality of the product add to this the the knowledge that I'm dealing with a company that will bend over backwards to help and serve me and it becomes a no brainer.

I realise that this reply hasn't described the differences between the Pioneer and the Eclipse as you asked, but I'm suggesting a different route anyway.

HTH's

Best regards
Dave.

edit: Phil!! Jeez mate you're in quicker that a rabbit down a hole.. at least have the common decency to wait until I've stopped singing your praises

[Beardy]

I haven't actually discounted phill's phlash phings ( I daren't just a the tmo, as I'm feeling a bit guilty, but thats just me) and in fact I quite like the look of the DIRZONE stuff. (being a bit of a kit tart though, I find myself strangly drawn to the idea of a personalised beadblasted BP, just don't let Phil know)

No, I'm just consdiering my options, and was wondering aloud about the Halcyon stuff.

[Al_Star]

As far as I know the Eclipse is an upgraded version of the Pioneer. When I was buying a single tank wing I just went for the Eclipse as it seemed to be the more up-to-date choice. At that time though I hadn't heard of DIR Zone - if I had they would certainly have been considered.

As for lift - you shouldn't need a huge amount. The wing is generally just for fine tuning your buoyancy. With that in mind I went for the 30lbs one. Steel plate with drysuit it a sensible choice as it does shift some weight off the belt. Given the size of your weightbelt you could go for the thicker plate.

Just out of interest have you done a weightcheck? 14Kg seems a lot!

HTH
Al

[Beardy]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

Just out of interest have you done a weightcheck? 14Kg seems a lot!

HTH
Al

<fx:Churchill dog> Oh yes <\fx>
14kg is the new reduced weight belt. for my first sea dives I had 22kg on my belt and 2kg round my ankles. After I struggled with boyance control (Don't quite know what my instructors we're thinking) and a posting here, I did a weightcheck in the pool, and with 12kg, I can just about sink with a FULL 15, bu I had to breath out a looong way. The idea of diving with BIG twins appeals to me

[Brian Donaghy]

Hi Mr Beardy,

The Pioneer was the original Halcyon single tank wing. It has one 'layer' ie. the outer skin is also the bladder. The Eclipse is newer and has an inner bladder and an outer skin in a similar manner to their twinset wings. This makes the Eclipse sturdier and more repairable but more expensive. The other obvious differences are that the Eclipse is longer & less wide than the Pioneer and they come in slightly different sizes. The Eclipse is also CE rated and is therefore easier to purchase in the EU than the Pioneer.

We've had our 27lb Pioneers for a few years now, have had no problems with them and love them to bits. That said, if we were to buy new single tank wings we'd probably buy 30lb Eclipses. I'm sure the other wings on the market now (Oxychek, Diverite, OMS, Dirzone, Agir Brok, etc., etc.) are all good products but I personally prefer a piece of kit which has a track record and doesn't need overhauled before use. I mean this in no way to be a criticism or comment on any of the manufactures I listed as examples of comparable wings!

As for lift...
27/30lbs is good. How much you weigh and how much lead you carry doesn't have that much to do with it unless you are substantially overweighed. If you are properly weighted there are only two things your wing has to deal with:

1) Enough lift at max depth to keep you neutrally buoyant with minimal gas in your suit and full tanks. For experimentation 10m is a good enough approximation of max depth - your suit shouldn't compress that much more. The variables here are exposure suit compression and volume of cylinders. If you dive with a membrane suit and a single 232bar 12l the swing will be minimal. If you dive with a 300bar 15l, 7l pony and a 10mm neoprene semidry the buoyancy swing could be huge. Remember that you need to weight yourself such that you are able to hold a 3m stop with essentially empty (~30bar) tanks.

2) Enough lift to float your kit on the surface. If you have a heavy cylinder (eg Heiser 15l), a heavy backplate, a weighted single tank adapter, a pony and/or a heavy canister light then you will have to think things through. Although for most people diving in the UK with a good approach this should not be a problem, even with a 27lb wing.

Good luck,
Brian

PS. as Al said 16kg is a lot - talk to someone (except the guy who taught you to dive 24kg = 53lbs!!!).

[Keiron]

The beauty of the Pioneers is that you don't need that single tank adapter and get a much more streamlines setup.

[divingniknaks]

You don't with the Cub either



Is this the queue for the coats

[Keiron]

Who sells the Cub then Phil?