Buddy crack (suicide??) bottles

[andy2tanx]

There see!  Dominic has shown us there IS a valid use for them!  Anything that can make the DO shoot to the surface has gotta be good right?

[Mark]

<font color='#000080'>DO in the pool ? ? ? That's a new one on me. &nbsp;

[Mdemon]

It's black. It's quite heavy. It's there for last resort. It's easy to operate and comes with the gear. &nbsp;What's the problem???

I can't see how it can be anything other than beneficial should the need arise, and given that at least a third of the fatalities last year had rapid uncontrolled ascents involved, a spare air bottle seems to be a much better, cheaper and above all SAFER method than dumping lead.

I'm with 2Tanx - each to their own. A bit of tolerance never hurt anyone.

[ian Price]

Thanks all

for the mostly considered opinions..!

Its good to do a trawl for considered advice and then make up your own mind! Think I'll leave mine where it is for now.

Digger I do have redundancy, as I posted I carry one or two 3L ponies. Not sure I gain too much rigging one of them to provide alternative back up, but I see what your saying.

In reply to missed stops! TDI actually advise going back in and doing your stops if you can get air and back in within 5-10 mins and you havent any DCS symptoms.

thanks for the advice all!

Ian

[Mdemon]

Just another quick thought - and to answer the original question.

Assuming most divers aren't on twinsets, and most of them don't have a pony, the spare air is the closest thing to redundancy they are going to have. &nbsp;Or to put it another way, you COULD go parachuting quite happily with only one parachute...but I for one would prefer to have some sort of reserve...

[Digger]

<font color='#000080'>Sorry if I've gone on a bit of a rant on this one, but they are just a bit of kit I really don't like.

Jason, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I know I've got a bit of a DIR attitude to these things, but that's me. I don't want to ever be in the position of trying to hold on to someone if it should ever go off. As Dom mentioned with quick-release weightbelts, similar problem, and the only hope they have is that I'm hanging on to slow them down.

You don't have to agree with me to dive with me, you just have to accept that either we're both on our own (and we're both planning the dive as a solo dive as a result) and we just happen to be on the same site at the same time, or that your Buddy bottle isn't coming with us. As I've said, if you can do the jacket thing, I'm happy to have it with us, because then maybe it's of some use to one of us. Otherwise, I see it as a danger to both of us with no realistic upside.

FionaB, you know about some of my diving, and admittedly 100 dives in Stoney is unfortunately my only option as I have to do novice dives most weekends with the club, and the coast is a fair way from Nottingham. You know about very little of my other diving. You are forgetting that I've dived all over the world, in many different environments, and experienced working in several centres with a huge number of different sites etc. The fact that so far I've only got 200 in my little PADI book is testament to the distinct lack of time to actually write things down in a centre, not a lack of varied diving. The dives in Stoney only get logged because I've got time in the pub after! I have problems with the closed minds of people who use the suicide bottles without thinking about the hazard they present. If you can show me an upside (which is possible) then I'll accept your point of view, and it can come on the dive.

I am noticing a pattern, tho. First I'm too young to know anything (in a previous thread), now I don't dive in enough different places...

Again, I think we'll agree to disagree? &nbsp;

I think my strong views on the subject are coming across as closed-mind, but in reality I'm anything but. Just show me a better way, and I'll do it. You'll have to justify your better way.

I don't suggest single tank diving in any situation you can't comfortably swim to the surface, but I accept that people do. If you're relying on a buddy bottle then, get a pony. It could just save your life. A buddy bottle seems like going parachuting with one chute and a bedsheet just in case.

[Fiona]

<font color='#0000FF'>Digger, I apologise if you feel I am having a go, yes I agree we should agree to disagree. &nbsp;I can see you have very stong opinions on some subjects and that does come across in your threads. However I do accept everyone is entitled to their opinion and we will leave it at that. &nbsp;Lets hope we do meet in the future and we can have a chat over a drink. &nbsp;Unfortunately that will not be at Stoney. &nbsp; I do hope though you give your novices a balanced view and not just one sided. &nbsp;Happy diving where ever that might be.

[Dominic]

If you really want a redundant source of air and BCD inflation, then you could consider buying a pony cylinder &amp; regulator.

Then call the nice people at Sub-Aqua Products, and put together an adaptor that fits the crack-bottle valve onto a LP hose, and attach it to your pony DV and BCD bottle post.

You've now got a nice, useful supply of air for emergencies that doesn't involve &quot;breathing the jacket&quot;, plus you've got a redundant source of inflation without faffing around with extra bladders or swapping direct feeds

[aclivity]

<font color='#000080'>So what is the issue with buddy emergency cylinders? &nbsp;That they decant at 230 bar (or whatever pressure you filled them at) directly into the BC?

I've heard lots of comments about these things, and even though I have one on my BC (and have as yet only ever used it to fill my BC before leaving the boat - apart from breathing from the borrowed club jacket - yuck) I'm still a little confused why they incite such revulsion.

Would a solution (and a potential money spinner for some third party manufacturer, or even AP valves) that would satisfy everyone be to have the equivalent of a first stage between the emergency cylinder and the jacket top reduce the pressure? &nbsp;That way you could control the air going in more easily. &nbsp;It'd be something between leaving the cylinder out altogether and having an adaptor made from the LP port of a pony as Dominic suggested?