OOA SOP in tight spaces.....

[DJL]

All, (Bob Cooper and other Cave divers??).....

In an OOA situation where you can't turn around what is the SOP for donating up/down the line??

Am I correct in the following:
* the signals remain the same (i.e. light signals)
* the reg is passed either down or up the leg to the receiver on the right hand side (another reason not to have stages there!).

Once clear of the restriction I assume that you would reorganise so that the OOA diver is leading. Would this still be performed in a silt out - i.e. the OOA diver would have to let go of the line to jump one up the queue??

Is this something that we should be practicing from time to time - even the simplest wreck penetration can result in a single file formation at points.

As an aside - whilst in Oz the cave divers there are trained to keep the reg in until the last moment so that if they do breath in they only suck on the reg and dont get a mouthfull of water. I assume that DIR disregards this for the following reasons:

* Clearer signal to buddy if reg is removed!
* Buddy should be close meaning an OOA situ will (should) never reach the point of someone gasping for a breath.
* Reg in can delay donation of air source.

OK so my brain is working too much at the moment but hey I'm 'busy' with work so cant dive during the week!!

Thanks - Dave.

[NotDeadYet]

I'm sure I'll get a DIR bollocking but in the real world you'd be dead. Remember, this is not a training environment or sitting in the pub going "what if". Psychologically, being in a situation where you are touching rock on every side of you, hearing the clang of metal on every movement and where even the slightest movement seems to take a lot of effort is very demanding in normal conditions, even in a dry cave. Add an emergency into that equation and you can see what a difference it would make. In a situation where you cannot turn around the chances of getting a long hose reg to someone like that before they start breathing water is minimal. And then the avalanche starts because you may now have a dead/immobile diver between you and the exit in a very tight space. How do you move them? This is why UK cave divers dive situations like this solo. The amount of assistance a buddy could provide is little more than if he wasn't there. I suppose the DIR solution is not to dive the cave in the first place.

It is arguable that your buddy would even be able to get in a position to see anything other than a light signal. In a short restriction it may be possible but in a sustained narrow passage there is no chance. You're dead. Sorry. If you want to do it right then you dive sidemounts (which isn't DIR), makes you more mobile and virtually eliminates a complete loss of gas.

My own approach -- which is personal preference -- would be to dive sidemounts. If I was diving backmounts then I close the isolator first so that for the period I am in the restriction (assuming it is sustained and not just a quick squeeze through a hole) then I am diving independants because I've been in many places where reaching valves even in what appears to be generous passage is impossible. As soon as you are through open the manifold and check the cylinder valves are open, especially the left hand valve. Also breathe the back-up because it may have filled with crap too.

For passing short restrictions, it isn't really as much of a problem.

Like I said, this isn't a DIR view, it's based on my own experience.

[Bob Cooper]

Agree with everything Stuart has said here (except the bit about diving sidemounts). Essentially if the passage is *that* small, I'd exercise option #1 (don't dive). It's not big, it's not clever and it's not much fun (for me anyway). I've been in some fairly tight passages and would not like to consider the consequences of having a gas emergency whilst in there. Tight passage, touching rock usually means near-zero vis, where a light signal may be ineffective.

You are right that the OOG diver always goes first.

I think if you are OOG and in a restriction and in zero vis, the last thing you need is to get lost off the line! One diver would always stay on the line in this situation (in contact with it), preferably both divers in touch contact. However, in an OOG situation in zero vis I can't see it's important to be that well organised. Far more important to stay on the line, clear the restriction, find some better vis, then reorganise in textbook style.

Hope this helps.

I'm off to Florida tomorrow to meet up with Andy Carrol after his Cave class. Will tell you all about it when we get back.

Bob

[NotDeadYet]

Bob,

You're very right, keeping contact with the line is very important as is maintaining a continuous line through the restriction (very easily broken or tangled in such conditions). Myself and DrJM had a very entertaining dive on the wrong side of a complicated restriction earlier this year because of this.

I've often been amazed that people treat Font de Truffe in France as a training dive, often many divers' first cave dive. The entrance restriction isn't easy and the second sump is quite tight too. An air sharing incident in there would take a very cool head.

Sidemount diving is fun, you've obviously never done it right The guy who pushed the far end of the Eastwall Inlet in Hurtle Pot said it got so tight that he ended up scratching a guideline on the rock rather than using a physical one -- hard to beat for a day out!!! There are some superb sidemount caves both here, France, Mexico, Florida, etc. It is a little more committing, but then swimming into a flooded tunnel with two steel tins of air and a few lights is pretty committing at the best of times. If you ever fancy a dip in the Dales then let me know.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Bob Cooper]

Stuart

I attempted a backmount dive in Source de la Bezerne earlier this year (I think you know that cave, in the Haute Marne?). The first few metres of line is in a horrendous line trap. OK going in, in good vis. but when exiting in near zero vis, it's charater building to say the least!

In that situation (zero viz, off the line through necessity, narrow passage, touching rock and silt all round and a tendancy to keep getting stuck), lights and buddies are of no use. Any kind of gas problem would have had very serious consequences.

For that reason I would exercise my option #1 and not dive there again.

My fault for attempting the dive in the first place. But nobody told me it was a sidemount dive!!!

I may well take you up on your offer of a dip in the Dales some-time. Is there anything suited to a back-mount wuss like me?

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Bob Cooper

I attempted a backmount dive in Source de la Bezerne earlier this year (I think you know that cave, in the Haute Marne?)

Yeah, Bezerne is a sidemount dive. If you'd only bought the updated copy of the guide book then you would have known... I have a few left in stock

Cheers,

Stuart
www.lizardland.co.uk
The Cave Diving Guide to Eastern France

[Bob Cooper]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Yeah, Bezerne is a sidemount dive. If you'd only bought the updated copy of the guide book then you would have known... I have a few left in stock

I did, I did......
I bought a copy of the book and if I remember correctly, Bezerne isn't in it. Or maybe it goes under a different name? Or maybe I just had an old version?

When did the updated version come out? We were at Bezerne in July (en route to Jura/Doubs)

Bob

[Dominic]

I'm not a cave diver, so I have nothing to say on the subject. However, I'll just mention that there was a thread a few years ago on Techdiver where Mon Tindale (A UK cave diver) asked what the DIR method was for such tight passages, and GI3 admitted that it called for sidemounts.

IIRC, he said that you added a bungee loop to the right hip to take the role of a D-ring, and had DIR-rigged stages on both sides. That, aside from the lack of backmounts, was all the changes that he would make to the standard DIR rig.

It was a while ago, so my memory could well be failing. Is techdiver still archived. . ?

**edit - found it: http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aq...?52106,subject

There is no big trick to DIR sidemount. In cold water, we use our dry suits
and a normal backplate with a weight belt of our decompression backplates
with tiny Halcyon wings. The backplate has two curved weights bolted through
where the tanks would go , usually 20-24 pounds in two weights. The wing has
enough lift to offset the plate and weights. The inflator of the wings is
not hooked up to a tank. The argon bottle inflates the drysuit, and the
wreck style argon location is used. The bottles are merely stage rigged with
normal stages added , only on the right there is no lower d-ring, just a
bungee loop that slides free on the belt . The light goes in the normal
place, as does everything else on the harness. Stages are carried and
breathed with the doubles being treated like back tanks. There is no long
hose. If you need to share, you hand off and discard the bad bottle, if
indeed it even comes to that with proper stage management, which it should
not. There is no silliness with any other bondage arrangement that the
strokes us.

/edit****

[NotDeadYet]

I remember it from Techdiver. I asked GI3 in a private post earlier and he said he had never dived sidemount so couldn't answer -- a month later he had published this system that he swore by. He also privately said he dived solo when he had to

I tried the system but did not like it, I don't think it was well thought out, I think it was just an aswer for the sake of it. I know a few people who have dived like that but I don't think it is in the spirit of either DIR or sidemount.

Bob, I was there in May and updated the book after that. Unscrupulous businessman that I am, I don't do cheap supplements to the main guide!!!

[Bob Cooper]

Here's a bit of advice I got when I asked DIR about sidemount some time ago......

"A small set of wing (36lbs) sandwich between 2 SS B/P to add a little weight
if you dive dry is the way to go. There's no reason to change anything to
the harness though (except that extra D-ring on the right) and the primary
light is positioned in the standard position... and no need for helmet
either."

Not tried it. But maybe I will one day!

Bob