EKPP Ressel (August 2003)

[Pierre Farrugia]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hello Dave,

Come on, if you read my posts, I am asking first how and then why. Also if we debat here in the manner, that what we say, other will take as a bible, then we should close this forum as here we discuss from diving with a snorkel to deco theory and gradient factors. Also this thread started from a DIR site that had a certain &quot;cutting edge&quot; profile, but they had the guts to publish, but you will be crazy if you try this out with out their knowledge and experience!
Also about taking the course, I think I already expressed myself , but from now on when one asks about something about trimix, we should replay to take the course &nbsp;

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Please try to respect the reasoning for the reluctance to divulge this information rather than believing that GUE/DIR divers on this board are just trying to be secretive as that is simply not the case... &nbsp;and no we aren't being paid by GUE to drum up business..

Sorry I don't agree with this, here we are debating a subject and everytime, a DIR diver says, to use the grey matter between ears, calculate deco on the fly and so on and no details are given out why? So from now on we have to devide forum in TDI, IANTD, GUE and so on???

NB. let's not start DIR vs Others, till now everyone has behaved well and a lot of usefull info is comming out.

Regards

Pierre

[Phil Ennis]

<font color='#0000FF'>I tend to agree with Pierre.

[Phil Ennis]

<font color='#0000FF'>Pierre, this may be worth a wade through. It doesn't give the GUE way but quite interesting, maybe you have already found it?
Click here

[Pierre Farrugia]

<font color='#0000FF'>Phil,

Can you resend the link as I could not enter please.

Regards

Pierre

[Davey Willo]

Pierre

Discussion is great, it is the meat and potatoes of forums, without discussion there would be no value to places like YD and yes on YD we do discuss many things &nbsp;from snorkels to deco, but you are repeatedly asking for the finer details of GUE's teachings on deco theory, deco on the fly etc and I and maybe others here feel that's it's a topic that needs teaching from a GUE instructor and not a topic to describe in detail on open dive forums.

I simply tried to explain to you why you may feel frustrated, I'm sorry that you feel that it is your right to know and that it is a GUE divers duty to explain it to you, but on these points I feel we must disagree and if you really want to know all of the finer details then I repeat...

Take the class.... &nbsp;

[Phil Ennis]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Pierre, cut and paste this although I did check the link but it is getting late. &nbsp;

www.thedecostop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

[Bob Cooper]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Pierre Farrugia @ April 25 2004,18:15)]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]A good idea is to post a standard DIR profile from Deco planner and then post the new modified profile and explain why!

OK, here's what we did today. &nbsp;Moldavia, English Channel, 10deg, planned depth was 45m for 40mins, but average depth was nearer 48m, so we modified profile a bit. &nbsp;Gas was 18/45, 50% and 100%. &nbsp;We planned a longer bottom time than most.

Here's what decoplanner spits out for GF=30/80:

48, 40, 18/45
21, 2, 50%
18, 3
15, 3
12, 6
9, 8
6, 29, 100%

Total deco = 51mins

I only included here the stops after the first switch to keep it short.

Here's (approx) what we planned and (approx) what we did:

48, 40, 18/45
21, 5, 50%
18, 2
15, 2
12, 4
9, 5
6, 15, 100%

Total deco = 33mins

Please don't come back and criticise this and that, and please don't tell me I should have done this, or I should have done that. &nbsp;However, I would be interested in what the recent Tech 1 graduates have to say about it, either on here or by PM. &nbsp;What would the theoreticallly perfet Tech 1 profile be for this?

[Pierre Farrugia]

<font color='#0000FF'>

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I simply tried to explain to you why you may feel frustrated, I'm sorry that you feel that it is your right to know and that it is a GUE divers duty to explain it to you, but on these points I feel we must disagree and if you really want to know all of the finer details then I repeat...

Take the class.... &nbsp; &nbsp;

Dave are you serious &nbsp; &nbsp;.....here no one is in duty to explaine anything but if we are to discuss deco topics and everytime we end up with the same statements about how to calculate deco witout the use of a computer, one might say &quot;how is this possible and asks how&quot; Can I also add that I am not frustrated

Bob, in previous posts you said that you end up doing same deco time but you would move time to maximise oxygen window, but this time you removed a lot of deco, how you arrived to remove all that deco (if you can) and obviously it worked as you are still alive responding my posts. &nbsp;

Regards

Pierre

[Digger]

<font color='#000080'>Got to agree with you Pierre. Stop making this some dark art we will never understand because we're not in this little club, share the info, as it may keep someone reading this alive or out of a serious bend.

There are some of us that use your standard gases for deco I'm sure, I certainly use 50% for deco when it suits, so share away. Previously it's been said that it only works on standard gases, tell us how you do it, and we'll see if it makes sense.

The number of times this comes up, and it's just used as a defence we can't discuss, as we don't necessarily have all the information to make a sensible decision about things.

Digs.

[Bob Cooper]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Pierre Farrugia @ April 25 2004,22:56)]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Bob, in previous posts you said that you end up doing same deco time but you would move time to maximise oxygen window, but this time you removed a lot of deco, how you arrived to remove all that deco (if you can) and obviously it worked as you are still alive responding my posts. &nbsp;

The way I see it, you earn credits.....You earn credits for opening the O2 window (which the software doesn't understand), you earn credits for doing the deep(er) stops (which the software tries to understand, by using GF's to frig the results), and you earn credits for being a little fitter than the average diver.

It looks like we removed some deco time but I compared a 30/80 profile with something nearer 20/100, which I would normally use as a base-line. &nbsp;We included the slow ascent from 6m in the final stop and a few other changes based on experience. &nbsp;This isn't rocket science, it just depends on how you feel after the dive (doing the deco your body needs to do). &nbsp;It really isn't a black art, but there are some simple rules which simply aren't black and white.

Anyway, you asked for some profiles and I gave you one, one I did today and one which worked for me. &nbsp;It may not work for others, but it worked for me. &nbsp;I was very awake and chipper on the boat ride home (2h) and very awake and chipper on the drive home (another 2h). &nbsp;That's how I tend to judge these things.

Hope it helps anyway.

Bob