TDI Overhead Environment Cavern Diving Course

[JAG]

Dear all,

Anyone done the above? I looked through the archives but can't find anything. I've received some info from Martyn Farr but was looking for a write up of the course/trip report/peoples experiences etc..

Cheers,

Ian

[Mark Powell]

There's a course report of an overhead/cavern course with Martyn here;

http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/fo...ad.php?t=28944

[John Touhig]

Originally Posted by Mark Powell

There's a course report of an overhead/cavern course with Martyn here;
http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/fo...ad.php?t=28944

Mark,

Other than entanglement hazards with wrecks, are there any significant differences between this course and the TDI Adv. Wreck course?


John

[Mark Powell]

There are a couple of differences. In terms of the standards

Cavern
- 4 Dives
- Min 2 Days
- No Deco
- Must be in the light zone
- Can be done on a single cylinder
- Theory sessions on caverns and conservation
The student must perform the following S-drill and skills during all dives:
1. Demonstrate adequate pre-dive planning.
2. Equipment check and gear matching.
3. Bubble check.
4. Demonstrate specialized propulsion techniques.
5. Demonstrate proper buoyancy control.
6. Demonstrate proper body posture.
7. Demonstrate proper stress analysis (detection and management).
The student must perform the following in-water skills during cavern dives:
1. Properly deploy a guideline.
2. Properly follow a guideline with eyes open and closed (simulating loss of visibility).
3. Air share with a buddy with eyes open, following the guideline.
4. Air share with a buddy with eyes closed and use touch contact, following the guideline.
5. Remove and replace mask while in contact with guideline.
6. Demonstrate light / hand -signals and touch contact.
7. Explore cavern.
8. Referencing as back-up navigation.
9. Anti-silting techniques.
10. Simulate a primary light failure, and deploy back up light and follow guideline
11. If diver uses a duel valve system, air/gas valve management

Advanced Wreck
- 6 Dives
- Min 3 days
- Must be done with redundant air source (twins or dual outlet valve)
- Can be beyond the light zone
- Can include decompression
- theory session on wrecks

In-water Drills
1. Demonstrate specialized propulsion techniques for an overhead environment
2. Deploy guideline with attention to immediate environment and conditions
3. Demonstrate lost line and lost buddy drills
4. Follow guideline (eyes open and eyes closed – or blacked out mask)
5. Air share with team member(s) while exiting confined space (eyes open and eyes closed – or blacked out mask)
6. Remove and replace mask while in contact with guideline
7. Demonstrate light and hand communications with team members
8. Demonstrate touch contact with team members
9. Simulate primary light failure and deployment of backup lights
10. Demonstrate correct techniques for staging deco/contingency gas outside wreck
11. Demonstrate proper procedure for isolating and switching a malfunctioning regulator (This drill
should be conducted no deeper than 40 meters / 132 fsw)
12. Demonstrate ability to deploy a lift bag from depth as emergency ascent line
13. Demonstrate ability to deploy a lift bag from depth as alternative buoyancy device
14. Execute simulated emergency blue water ascent with marker deployment from staged stop below 6 meters (simulated or real live boating)
15. Demonstrate understanding of basic wreck layout and special considerations for navigating wreck
16. Deal with diver presenting signs of serious DCS at surface (simulated emergency evac.)
17. Properly execute the planned dive within all pre-determined limits.
18. Demonstrate the proper navigational techniques for the specific dive.
19. Demonstrate out of air sharing with long hose through a restriction.
20. Demonstrate the proper procedures for switching and isolating a malfunctioning regulator (This exercise shall not be conducted deeper than forty (40) msw) / one hundred thirty (130) fsw.
21. Deployment of lift bag or up line for decompression.
22. Silt-out procedures.
23. Follow line while sharing air.
24. Follow line with eyes closed while air sharing.

Although they are looking at different environments in my opinion the advanced wreck falls somewhere between the Cavern and Intro to Cave courses. Wrecks are often called steel caves and so many of the practices for wreck penetration are the same as for cave diving.

I am an advanced wreck instructor but not a cavern/cave instructor so you might want to talk to a cavern/cave instructor about their opinions.

If you are looking to improve your skills for wreck diving and want to learn about penetration, line laying, team work, emergency procedures, etc then the Advanced Wreck course would be my recommendation.

[SoggyFox]

Whats the difference between Cave and Cavern?

does a cavern have an air gap/pocket?

[Mark Powell]

Originally Posted by SoggyFox

Whats the difference between Cave and Cavern?
does a cavern have an air gap/pocket?

Cavern is within the daylight zone, i.e. you should be able to see light from the exit, whereas cave is beyond the daylight zone.

The official course descriptions are below.

Cavern
This course is designed to develop the minimum skills and knowledge for cavern and overhead
environment diving within the limits of light penetration; in addition outlines specific hazards associated with cave
diving. The Cavern Diver Course in not intended to provide instruction for cave diving environments. The
objective of this course is to train divers in the proper planning, procedures, techniques and hazards of cavern
diving.

Intro Cave
This course is an introduction to the basic principles of cave diving utilizing a single primary guide line.
Introductory cave diving is the second level in the development of safe techniques for cave diving, directly building
upon the cavern diver course. This introduction to cave diving is not intended to train divers for all facets of cave
diving. The objective of this course is the perfection of skills taught in the cavern diving program, in addition to the
adoption of additional techniques and procedures required for elementary cave dives.

Full Cave
This course is the third (3rd) stage of training in the series of TDI’s cave diver development program.
Advanced cave dive planning, the practical execution of different types of cave systems and scenarios divers
encounter are presented. This cave diving course is not intended to prepare divers for evaluating all facets of cave
diving. The objective of this course is to expand and critique previous skills accomplished in the Cavern and
Introductory Cave Diving programs. Emphasis is placed upon dive planning and skill perfection through actual cave
penetration.

If you are interested in cave training for UK cave diving then I would contact Martyn Farr http://www.farrworld.co.uk/index.html

If you are interested in advanced wreck training then contact me!

[John Touhig]

Thanks Mark.

I raised the question because of the discussions and points raised in a couple of books I read over the Xmas. “Deep Decent” & “The Last Dive”. Both books used the term “steel cave” referring to wrecks and discussed the transfer of skills and techniques used in cave diving and applying them to wreck penetration. In both books the divers concerned seemed to be split into two camps, one using cave techniques (e.g. laying a line) and the other using gradual penetration where the diver would build up there knowledge of the wreck gradually before attempting deeper penetrations.


John

[Mark Powell]

Originally Posted by John Touhig

the other using gradual penetration where the diver would build up there knowledge of the wreck gradually before attempting deeper penetrations.
John

That approach, although mentioned in the Advanced Wreck course, has largely fallen out of favour. Using cave diving techniques has become much more widely accepted.

Both the Last Dive and Deep Descent refer to incidents that occured at least 10 years ago. They are useful as a way of seeing what used to happen and where many of the lessons in todays courses come from but we have come a long way from those days.

[John Touhig]

Originally Posted by Mark Powell

Both the Last Dive and Deep Descent refer to incidents that occured at least 10 years ago. They are useful as a way of seeing what used to happen and where many of the lessons in todays courses come from but we have come a long way from those days.

A lot of things those guys & gals where doing back then quite frankly scare the life out of me. You can see that new techniques, equipment and gases where being introduced and used by some as lessons where being learned, usually the hard way.

I found both books a fascinating insight into the pioneering days of deep wreck diving in the USA. Have any similar books been written about the evolution of technical diving in the UK?

[SoggyFox]

there are a few moments in Shadowdivers that sent a shiver down my spine.