Inverted Twins - Cave Agencies

[john scott]

Due to old age my shoulder mobility is not all it should be. I have started doing mobility exercises (posted on this site - thank you) but so far I am still not able to reach my valves. Hence I was planning to invert my twin tens to enable me to do shutdowns.
However, talking to the owner of a LDS who runs GUE courses I was told that inverted twins were not allowed for cavern and cave courses. Is this a rule for all organisations who operate cave training?

[JasonP]

Originally Posted by john scott

However talking to the owner of a LDS who runs GUE courses I was told that inverted twins were not allowed for cavern and cave courses. Is this a rule for all organisations who operate cave training?

Well you can definitely do caves sidemount. Martyn Farr does his intro cave course using sidemounts.

Not sure about inverted.

Jason

[ardhill]

I would phone a few instructors and ask them.

Call Martyn or Richie Stevenson. They both do the courses, and may or may not allow inverts.

I would be interested in the results myself.

(Invert diver doing cavern course later this year with upright single)

[scuba g]

If you are physically unable to reach the standard twinset config then surely the agencies must adopt to allow their students to reach the valves in the most effecient manner? It will be interesting to see what PSA and TDI etc do as far as backmount and inverted cylinders. Plus, if you are in a confined space, then Id feel the inverted would be easier to get to and possibly less stressful, I dived twins for a few years and because Im fairly flexible and have long arms I could reach no bother, but now with the Meg, it feels more natural to reach the valves from just below your back. As mentioned, sidemounts are easily accessible but I suppose not always and option.

Keep us posted on your results!

[JasonP]

Originally Posted by scuba g

Plus, if you are in a confined space, then Id feel the inverted would be easier to get to and possibly less stressful

How are you going to route the hoses? They've got to come up from your lower back and they've got to be 100% non snaggable. Because if you're going through a confined space, the last thing you want is a hose that you can't reach getting caught or damaged on something behind you.

You also need a long hose that comes over your shoulder to donate to someone so they can use it coming out in front of you in the touch contact position.

Sidemounts are also gentler on bad backs.

Jason

[James The Badger]

To be honest John I think the discussion is pretty much the same as to invert or not period.
It may make shut down easier, but may complicate after failiure procedures such as a team member assisting with diagnostics and signalling to each other. It also means that the rest of your team has to be familiar with an inverted set up and subsequent hose routing/valve postioning. This may be difficult if they do not dive an inverted set up themselves
One thing that was hammered into us was elimination of secondary problems and inverting tanks for a cave course just looks like creating more issues than its solving. You can do a cave course on single tank and really enjoy it

[Steve S]

Hi John,

I'd be surprised if the no invert was a 'rule' for all agencies, a friend of mine did intro to cave with Martyn Farr, so I'll ask him to ask him

I suspect your LDS is meaning from GUE courses alone but I'll be interested in hearing the answer when you find out though.

Good luck.

Safe diving,
Steve

[James The Badger]

Originally Posted by Steve S

I'd be surprised if the no invert was a 'rule' for all agencies,

I think the question is just one of safe & effecient procedures rather than an agency specific issue. Believe me, its flippin tricky enough down there without making it more complicated!

[ardhill]

James, we have really done the invert / non-invert to death here.

It is true that inverts don't fit in with GUE practices, but the majority of us don't dive to those standards, so it doesn't matter.

The man just wants to know if he is allowed to dive his configuration of choice by non-GUE cave instructors.

[James The Badger]

Agree 100%, no interest in that discussion. What I meant was that the configuration may be governed by the requirments of the environment not any agency rule.