Is cave diving really only for strokes?

[Ahmed Adly]

I have been thinking recently about this THING.

DIR is my chosen method of diving (although I don't like what it's called). Because of this, I have more or less cancelled every single ccr class I was about to take. In one case I even lost a deposit.
The reason being that I am totally unable to think on a different wave length about diving (strong is the power of the dark side). Therefore, CCR is just out of reach to my mind.

One of the main reasons behind this is the statement "the risk outweighs the benefit".

I would like to promote the possibility that the same is true about cave diving.
The reason for this being that I and I mean IMHO I find very little benefit emerging from the caves apart from when JJ pulls one of his death defying dives and proves that you CAN actually survive such an ordeal (with balls of solid brass of course)

Mind you, I truly do appreciate one benefit from cave diving which WAS [and I mean WAS] that it was JJ's way of developing a system for all of us. I bet he almost killed himself doing it, but as far as I know the man a lot of his honest intension was making diving safer.
But as I stated, that WAS done.

My main understanding is that cave diving is "exciting" and "fun". But for what purpose is the very long penetrations that put one's life in danger?
So is it an adrenaline sport? Because if so.... then by DIR's own defenition "the risk of cave diving outweighs the benefit". Better spend your money and energy whatching fish (much less risky).

I really would like the opinions from both DIR divers AND non dir cave divers. I personally will not answer anything here to pre-emt the obvious . If anyone has any questions, please adress me through PM.

[ratcliffe]

Not a question, just a comment, so excuse me for pointing out what I thought was the blindingly obvious, but I thought the whole basis and ethos of the DIR system was that it was designed for use in caves...

OK if you don't want to do cave diving then thats fine, but the system was designed for that ?

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by ratcliffe

Not a question, just a comment, so excuse me for pointing out what I thought was the blindingly obvious, but I thought the whole basis and ethos of the DIR system was that it was designed for use in caves...

OK if you don't want to do cave diving then thats fine, but the system was designed for that ?

Absolutely


That said a lot of cave divers would do dry caves as well. They just love caves?? They have the same interest in geology as others do in wrecks or fish. Some cave divers who love caves will have the equivalent of "ohhh look at that pretty blue fish" knowledge, and others will be the equivalent of naming the species, giving it genus in Latin and being able to outline its mating habits.


I personally can see the attraction of some mines (just like big shipwrecks really) and I love highly decorated caves like the ones in Mexico. They would massively increase my diving if they were in the UK and I wouldn't get bored.

Plain rock sea caves I have dived are just boring. I did Bilingshurst cave, the one at Jack Fish and a few others.

I will have a go at France and see what they are like but Ill be surprised if I like them.


ATB

Mark

[NotDeadYet]

What's the point of going underwater at all? How many of us can say that we do it for any real benefit to anyone other than as an entertainment for ourselves? Cave diving doesn't carry much more inherent risk than a 20m dive on a reef. The difference is that cavers are aware of it, open water divers aren't necessarily.

In terms of risk vs pointlessness, all forms of diving has to be up there. It's entertainment pure and simple. I've heard a lot of people chanting a load fo spiritual bollox about how it puts them in tune with... whatever... but it's an entertainment in the same way that climbing mountains, skiing, kicking a small ball round a field, etc., demonstrate just how good humans are at doing pointless things, which essentially comes down to our own selfish interest in self-gratification and serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever to the rest of humanity. So we got Goretex? Great, can you eat it?

I'm happy with that. If you start looking for a higher purpose before you do anything you'll spend the rest of your life sat on your arse watching the clock tick past.

Cheers,

Stuart

[devilgas]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

What's the point of going underwater at all? How many of us can say that we do it for any real benefit to anyone other than as an entertainment for ourselves? Cave diving doesn't carry much more inherent risk than a 20m dive on a reef. The difference is that cavers are aware of it, open water divers aren't necessarily.

In terms of risk vs pointlessness, all forms of diving has to be up there. It's entertainment pure and simple. I've heard a lot of people chanting a load fo spiritual bollox about how it puts them in tune with... whatever... but it's an entertainment in the same way that climbing mountains, skiing, kicking a small ball round a field, etc., demonstrate just how good humans are at doing pointless things, which essentially comes down to our own selfish interest in self-gratification and serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever to the rest of humanity. So we got Goretex? Great, can you eat it?

I'm happy with that. If you start looking for a higher purpose before you do anything you'll spend the rest of your life sat on your arse watching the clock tick past.

Cheers,

Stuart

totally agree. some folks are just happier with rock over their heads.

the risk is always there (whatever you do) it's the risk management that lets you do it. i'm suprised that an adv tri instr is so narrow minded to think that cave diving is for strokes and cannot think outside of DIR....perhaps the horizons need to be expanded?

[Sixsquid]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

What's the point of going underwater at all? How many of us can say that we do it for any real benefit to anyone other than as an entertainment for ourselves? Cave diving doesn't carry much more inherent risk than a 20m dive on a reef. The difference is that cavers are aware of it, open water divers aren't necessarily.

In terms of risk vs pointlessness, all forms of diving has to be up there. It's entertainment pure and simple. I've heard a lot of people chanting a load fo spiritual bollox about how it puts them in tune with... whatever... but it's an entertainment in the same way that climbing mountains, skiing, kicking a small ball round a field, etc., demonstrate just how good humans are at doing pointless things, which essentially comes down to our own selfish interest in self-gratification and serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever to the rest of humanity. So we got Goretex? Great, can you eat it?

I'm happy with that. If you start looking for a higher purpose before you do anything you'll spend the rest of your life sat on your arse watching the clock tick past.

Cheers,

Stuart

Originally Posted by devilgas

totally agree. some folks are just happier with rock over their heads.

the risk is always there (whatever you do) it's the risk management that lets you do it. i'm suprised that an adv tri instr is so narrow minded to think that cave diving is for strokes and cannot think outside of DIR....perhaps the horizons need to be expanded?

Not much more to add except ............................. isn't it considered offensive to go around calling people strokes and if it's acceptable to put it in a thread title I reckon we NON_DIR divers should come up with an equally derisive name for DIR divers Personally I tend to go with 'US Military' and people usually understand I mean "can't think for themselves" and, sadly, the OP does nothing to alter my perception

On a positive note, I have plenty of time for the members of Team Foxturd (well, most of them ) and other DIR divers on YD who are not so narrow minded and clearly have an organic brain in their skulls, rather than a CPU.

[MartyC]

Ahmed has shall we say, an interesting way of putting things and does like to be controversial in a Red Sea stylee

[johnv]

Dear Trimix instructor......

My main understanding is that trimix diving is "exciting" and "fun". But for what purpose is breathing nasty gasses that put one's life in danger?
So is it an adrenaline sport? Because if so.... then by DIR's own defenition "the risk of trimix diving outweighs the benefit". Better spend your money and energy sitting on the beach watching Bikini clad girls (much less risky).


sound familiar? maybe with some self reflection you can now answer your own questions, or let me know if you need more help. I can suggest some good locations for bikini spotting.......

John

[divingniknaks]

Originally Posted by johnv

sitting on the beach watching Bikini clad girls (much less risky).

Not if Mrs Niknaks is with me.

I'd take my chances with Ahmed trying to kill me any day

.

[Tunicates]

Stroke?

As in what you do to pussies?

or

As in cerebrovascular incident?