Which CCR Rebreather Question

[RichardGreen]

Unlike many it seems, i have no emperors new clothes issues with my kit and i have no problem with airing its faults.

ATB

Mark Chase[/quote]


Neither have I mark, what I have said in my post above is an honest reflection of my experiences. If a better rebreather comes along other than the vision I'll get one end of.

To me its a tool to get me where I want to be and back not something to be evangelical about, I think you may well agree with that.


Cheers


Richard

[ccr_ada]

I am happy with my classic with all its mods now a vision looks nice but they will both get me to the wreck and back so why pay any more £££££ They will do the same times in water ?OK a few more bells and whistles but that's more to go wrong if you ask me I am looking at the new CCR's that WILL come out see what they will do ? Until then I am sticking to my old classic

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by RichardGreen

Unlike many it seems, i have no emperors new clothes issues with my kit and i have no problem with airing its faults.

ATB

Mark Chase

Neither have I mark, what I have said in my post above is an honest reflection of my experiences. If a better rebreather comes along other than the vision I'll get one end of.

To me its a tool to get me where I want to be and back not something to be evangelical about, I think you may well agree with that.


Cheers


Richard

Richard I wasn't specifically referring to you.

I spoke to someone last week who said he had had no problems at all with his Vision. When i quizzed him about the multitude of faults I was aware of he had actually suffered them all? However he was apparently happy to say he had had a faultless unit on the strength that he hadn't had to pay for a repair yet????

Not quite the same concept of faultless that I have,

ATB

Mark Chase

[RichardGreen]

Mark no worries, I d'dnt assume you was referring to me, just in general.

Thats not my concept of faults either.


ada, you are probably right to hang on I reckon there will be a lot of changes and new stuff around in the not to distant future.


Cheers


Richard

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I think the above answer is critical.

I dived the Hammer Head and when it works its God gift to divers. It is truly a fantastic bit of kit.

The problem comes when like me you book many multi day trips. On these trips a unit failure on day one /two etc. is a total disaster. As a result I have two control heads. Thats very very expensive if you dive a Vision.

Diving the HH it cost me about £1500 to have a spare head. It would be about £2600 to have a spare vision head. I havew found no one selling a Vision head S/H.

Using a KISS it will cost me about £400

I think now MCCR has a decent HUD to go with it, its not such a bad plan.


I am told by many that the Meg with Apex2 head is also ultra reliable. However to have one of these with a redundant head is looking like about £5500.00

I just cant afford that.

I am about to collect my KISS CCR. For an honest and open report on just how good a KISS is or is not compared to a full on ECCR? Watch this space.

Unlike many it seems, i have no emperors new clothes issues with my kit and i have no problem with airing its faults.

ATB

Mark Chase

Crikey, you should be running the NHS or Network Rail. Pour money on an inherently flawed system rather than getting something more reliable... Blair would love you...

On a serious note, I'd be giving my kit choice some serious questioning (i.e. the fecker would be on e-bay) if I had to invest that much cash in getting it reliable enough to cope with a multiday trip. I'm feeling the urge to perform a sexual act on my scrag end offcut of Canadian bogpipe as the most I've spent on keeping it running over the last couple of years is a ten quid tube of krytox and some cells.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Crikey, you should be running the NHS or Network Rail. Pour money on an inherently flawed system rather than getting something more reliable... Blair would love you...

On a serious note, I'd be giving my kit choice some serious questioning (i.e. the fecker would be on e-bay) if I had to invest that much cash in getting it reliable enough to cope with a multiday trip. I'm feeling the urge to perform a sexual act on my scrag end offcut of Canadian bogpipe as the most I've spent on keeping it running over the last couple of years is a ten quid tube of krytox and some cells.

Cheers,

Stuart

This is fast the conclusion I am coming to. However you have to remember I always wanted a KISS from day one. I just don't trust electronics. It was only Andyp's insistence that we got UK based units, and the false belief that it was a well proven unit, that I ended up with a Classic.

I think the Hammer Head is actually a better unit than the Vision because it has the passive secondary which just gives you PP02 and the HUD. If the primary controller fails you can just run the set with no battery in it and fly manually using the secondary. So Hassle, but no missed dive and still safe.

In terms of function it does everything and more than the Vision does except the temp stick. I don't value the temp stick so that doesn't bother me.

The rich irony of the situation is I chose the Hammer Head over the Vision in order to A: save money and B: to get a proven electronics package. Little did i know that the package for the HH was almost as new as the Vision

To upgrade the Classic with the HH was considerably cheaper than the Vision option. The second HH head came about through a deal on some second hand kit so it didn't really cost me much. However £1500 is a realistic figure for someone considering a spare head. I thought not only would it give me redundancy, but also all the Inspo classic divers i dive with. It sounded a great plan.

Having now dived CCR for a couple of years I am much more aware of the issues and faults of the various units available. Despite the claims of Megs being superb the Sherewater meg wasn't. I am told that all the Sherewater heads are scrap now? I don't know how true this is but certainly the two meg divers on our boat have scraped theirs.

So now the Meg has the Apex2 head which drags it kicking and screaming into the very latest 1998 technology??? PP02 only controllers?? However unlike the Classic at least it has a HUD.

The Hammer Head was always supposed to be a stop gap whilst i decided between the Sherewater Meg and the Vision. Now having got to know both units, I wouldn't choose either of them.

Why spend £5500 on a Vision and then have to replace the case and the harness to make it better to travel with and dive? Why spend £5500 on a Meg when the head only provides set point control? The Boris is totally out of it as with the new flying weight regs its going to be too expensive to travel with. Also the Boris has been far from a fault free unit.

Through all this decision making and agonizing, the KISS is still out there as the cheapest and most reliable unit. I listen to Zak and others and they tell me it just works and keeps on working.

Right now i like the sound of that.

On the issue of, is it any good? Ill let you know.

On paper the Revo does seem a better unit. It has the advantage of diluent and 02 addition and even less clutter than the KISS. It has a HUD as standard and even offers duel HUD?? It offers forth cell computer linkage as well which is handy. Finally, I am really really interested in the duel scrubber design. This has to make it one of the best travel units available. If i could get hold of one right now I would. Sadly for me thats just not that easy but if your new to CCR its not a problem.

I shall be following the Revo's progress closely and also keeping a close eye on the two new Apex2 Meg's on the boat. Those are the only two choices of unit I would consider right now if i were entering into CCR.


ATB

Mark Chase

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I listen to Zak and others and they tell me it just works and keeps on working...

... It has a HUD as standard and even offers duel HUD?? It offers forth cell computer linkage as well which is handy. Finally, I am really really interested in the duel scrubber design.

To me there is a connection between the first and the second... the KISS keeps going because it doesn't have any of the fanciness that other rebreathers have. You start adding HUD's, etc., then it's no longer a KISS and you're back in a similar situation of backup heads etc. The KISS does what the KISS does because, to put it bluntly, it has feck all on it. I can't help thinking the new VR displays are just pandering to a mass market and is a wrong move for the KISS. It's probably the right move for Jetsam though.

On the issue of, is it any good? Ill let you know.

I already know. In the end I did perform a sexual act on it to show my appreciation

Cheers,

Stuart

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

To me there is a connection between the first and the second... the KISS keeps going because it doesn't have any of the fanciness that other rebreathers have. You start adding HUD's, etc., then it's no longer a KISS and you're back in a similar situation of backup heads etc. The KISS does what the KISS does because, to put it bluntly, it has feck all on it. I can't help thinking the new VR displays are just pandering to a mass market and is a wrong move for the KISS. It's probably the right move for Jetsam though.



I already know. In the end I did perform a sexual act on it to show my appreciation

Cheers,

Stuart

I agree with what your saying but I cant get over not having a HUD. Especialy on a KISS. I am honist enough with myself to admit i will not check the handsets nearley as much as i should.

I am hoping the HUD being a stand alone item will not interfeer with the smooth running of the kis.

ATB

Mark Chase

[scribley]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I agree with what your saying but I cant get over not having a HUD. Especialy on a KISS. I am honist enough with myself to admit i will not check the handsets nearley as much as i should.

I am hoping the HUD being a stand alone item will not interfeer with the smooth running of the kis.

ATB

Mark Chase

The HUD won't interfere with the running of the KISS, but if the HUD fails do you bin the dive??? Same as if you had an ECCR and had electronics failure??

I'll soon have a Shearwater computer and Shearwater HUD on an MCCR - if the Shearwater computer fails I can't dive. The MCCR is fine to dive, but I can no longer use it due to "electronics failure".

[Janos]

Originally Posted by scribley

The HUD won't interfere with the running of the KISS, but if the HUD fails do you bin the dive??? Same as if you had an ECCR and had electronics failure??

I'll soon have a Shearwater computer and Shearwater HUD on an MCCR - if the Shearwater computer fails I can't dive. The MCCR is fine to dive, but I can no longer use it due to "electronics failure".

This is an interesting one. If either the computer or the HUD failed, I would abort the dive, but I woudn't come off the loop.

Janos