What does the future hold for rebreathers?

[W Wilberforce]

Hello Mark,
At least you got some decent webbing!
Just wondering, do you stow the heron on the left or right side?

Also, would you use the Auto-air (i got my hands on one) on a shallower-than-40m ndl dive as sole bailout?
How about in the Read Sea?
Sorry to lose the topic

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by spunkmire

Hello Mark,
At least you got some decent webbing!
Just wondering, do you stow the heron on the left or right side?

Also, would you use the Auto-air (i got my hands on one) on a shallower-than-40m ndl dive as sole bailout?
How about in the Read Sea?
Sorry to lose the topic

I never used an auto air. Both my Inspo units came with a standard reg. I don't like the idea of controlling buoyancy with the reg I am trying to breath off.

Necklaced reg always seemed intuitive to me so thats what i used. Now i don't have a reg on the dill at all.

ATB

Mark

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

This is my concern (although I acknowledge I know very little), I know of so many people who have had trouble with sensors, doesn't matter how good you are but they are a serious failure point. and if you are rninng three of them then to my mind that can make things worse, 2 reliable ones would be far better, a primary and a backup. But what do I know!

yes in my experience you are exactly right. Cells are by far the most important and yet at the same time in my experience one of the most unreliable parts of the rb.

Ive just had 3 more new cells fail early. They were a free replacement of 3 that also failed early. The return rate for AI cells is reported to be 10%. Yes 10%. Frankly i think thats disgusting and shows a huge level of iresponsibility (from the mnf) Hell these are ONLY life support critical components

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by ianfirmin

This is meaningless, inaccurate and irrelevant. It just makes your occasionally perceptive comments less effective.

ATB
Ian

Its meaninfull to the family and friends of those who have died

Its accurate in that approx one person is lost every month (or if you want to be pedantic maybe uts 1.5 deaths/month, or maybe 2 either way its way higher than OC)

as for relevance;

Im sorry if it grates your bias but: its clear that rbs are significantly riskier than OC so when someone (as they are here) is considering using an rb for dives which can easily be done on OC then it seems to me that highlighting the risk is very relevant indeed

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by Timbobaggins

simple, don't have either.

Proper checks and obaying scrubber rules.

bad batch of sorb can lead to CO2 hit without warning or pre-dive indication.

trapped scrubber o-ring (inspo) can lead to co2 hit without warning or pre-dive indication

If you have a flood on the loop its most likely to be at start of dive. Therefore dive to 40M and inboard 3 litre will get you up and out on OC

I dont agree, it can happen at anytime.

opv sticking open during dive, CL torn during dive, torn hose, o-ring in dsv breaking when clearing gurgles, accidentally forgeting to close dsv when clearing gurgles

[Ferg3333]

Mate, a CCR can kill at the surface, bailout is always necessary. How many times have you seen me not take it??

The only solution I could see for you and the way you want to dive is a trim lightweight CCR run off twin 7's with H valves(i.e. reg on one side, ccr reg on other). With your RELAXED RMV you should be able to get out of a 40-50m dive with an aggressive bailout plan. .

If you look after your CCR and maintain it, more often than not it will perform flawlessly. But as you already know CCR diving is not cheap and only more cost effective on Trimix dives as it has already been mentioned. For a days diving its an o2 fill, lime fill and then your diluent so your looking at £20 minimum plus bailout .

If you want some more time on mine let me know.

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by BJ

I never take bail-out when I fly on aeroplanes.

Originally Posted by BJ

My brother has a Cesna like Martin Parker's! Neither use parachutes.

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Great. Does owning a plane with no parachutes stop the DSV from being comletely f***ed when it ends up full of lime?

Without the analogy JB wouldn't have been able to get his name drop in

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

No-one ever mentions the hundreds (thousands?) of people who are still alive because of bailout.

Nobody floods a unit at the end of a dive (or 800m inside a cave)
Nobody floods a unit and has a scooter failure at EXACTLY the same time

no wait, I did!

Ignorance is bliss until it kills yah

I had my shit together yet my rmv was over 45lpm! fortunately I had bailout. So what would it be after a caustic at 50m? and how long would a half empth 3L last me?


I guess the reason for the flood could have been detected before the dive - given that we know I am a useless twat. (I cleared a hose gurgle without closing dsv )

[W Wilberforce]

Sorry to hi-jack thread again,
but when people say "clearing hose gurgle",
on an inspiration does this mean coming off the loop
(holding your breath for the drill),
lifting the hose and leaning it right to get the liquid off the mouthpiece valves and into the counterlung ?
(On the course we kept the mouthpiece in, and leaned right and then backwards- a very stupid-looking behaviour from afar and not terribly effective at stopping the valve 'blowing' noise from saliva on the mouthpiece valves )
On the Inspi Classic, is the DSV the white mouthpiece block?
I am confused between DSV and BOV.

Back to the topic,
Knowing what I know now (really not very much really) with 20hrs on the unit, I would like to see:

A HUD that is genuinely '100% effective and reliable' so you really DON'T have to check the handsets every 2 mins
-e.g. incorporated into the mask

Tank pressure readouts on the handsets (e.g. the Poseidon/ Cis-Lunar VI) and wireless handsets (Very handy IMHO)

CO2 monitor

BOV

Gas switching to the BOV so I can go OC and breathe all of my bailout tanks through the BOV
( i.e. without taking my mouthpiece out for a sub 100m dive having to bailout and switch gases)-
looking at pictures of the Cis-Lunar Mr Stone seems to have come up with an ingenious design on the that.

Full deco display and scrubber monitor- the Inspi Vision seems to be the way forward in that respect,

Genuinely portable field compressors (not noisy as fuck, light and fast) and portable very high pressure Oxygen tanks - with a manual oxygen booster


All in then,
The Inspi Vision is def. the way forward,
if they can cure all the niggles!
I guess this rates me as a technophile-lazy-bugger

IMHO obviously!

[ianfirmin]

Originally Posted by Drmike

Its meaninfull to the family and friends of those who have died

Its accurate in that approx one person is lost every month (or if you want to be pedantic maybe uts 1.5 deaths/month, or maybe 2 either way its way higher than OC)

as for relevance;

Im sorry if it grates your bias but: its clear that rbs are significantly riskier than OC so when someone (as they are here) is considering using an rb for dives which can easily be done on OC then it seems to me that highlighting the risk is very relevant indeed

Mike, this argument has been done to death so I'm not going there.

What really concerns me is the concept the RB is just another type of Scuba. You are saying (I believe) that scuba divers should only use RB's when it becomes necessary and makes the given dive safer and that replacing scuba with a RB for certain dives increases the risk to the user. Am I correct this is your opinion?

Assuming I am correct; I would make the point that treating RB's as "another type of scuba" is the truly dangerous thing. Apart from the fact that both techniques get you below the water surface they, in my view, require very different skill sets and attitudes.

The post was about "where RB's are going". I suspect that more and more people will use RB's that have never used OC before. I also suspect that many of them will be better and safer RB divers than OC divers who have crossed over.

You appear to be concerned over peoples safety. Good on you (I'm not). I don't think that perpetuating the concept that RB's are an advanced form of scuba helps. I think that getting across the notion that OC does very little to prepare you for RB's is a much more profitable exercise.

ATB
Ian