Which computer again

[Pez]

I know this sort of repeats an earlier question, but I did not glean a definite answer from earlier responses. I plan dives on tables, carry a slate and timer but still use the computer as the wigglies are less degraded than my brain during a dive. I have a pair of legs that do a great job but if I want to go further faster, I use a car type analogy.

Any way to the question, I am currently using NITROX on air profiles but am looking to move to using the gas more effectively for some scenarios. The future will certainley invlove some TDI training and expanding my dive envelope. A multi mixed gas capable computer is therefore my goal. Money not an issue, I am hideously overpaid ( no begging letters from 'I am ill, only a YBOD can save me' types please). The VR3 seems to be the front runner, if only to future proof myself and save money in the long run. Or am I just kidding myself and should go for the Vytec genre, and convert it to a D timer if I eventually need He or more than 3 mixes.

Both seem to have many positive and negative comments on the many pages of feedback from their respective users. I am trying to avoid buying something just 'cos everyone else has got it', but conversely don't want the 'I wish i had bought the....' that occurs 12 months after purchase of something innapropriate.

Bottom line, what would you buy?

[Fathoms Down]

I have both a Vytec and a VR3 and, although the Vytec is a good computer, it lives firmly in guage mode when I'm doing deco.

[And]

Originally Posted by Pez

Or am I just kidding myself and should go for the Vytec genre, and convert it to a D timer if I eventually need He or more than 3 mixes.

...

Bottom line, what would you buy?

I'd buy what I use now. A Vytec and tables. There is a very useful feature on the Vytec which shows seconds as well as minutes, you can also reset the gauge as you conduct the dive to help you time the ascent. The total divetime then shows in the bottom corner. I usually reset as we start the ascent from our first stop, and then reset at the gas switch. Very easy to use and simple to do. It is a smaller unit, and has a decent strap. The backlight is good enough to be able to stow your light on the ascent in the darkest water keeping your hands free.

I like it a lot. It is flexible enough to let you decide what deco you are going to do. One day you could use Buhlmann, the next day VPMB, the next day RGBM, and then create your own 'mix and match' profiles which some people do. Deco isn't complicated. For the most part it is a simple case of remembering 5 numbers (at least in the 40 to 65 mtr range). I don't need a computer to tell me that and I want to be sure about the deco I am going to do BEFORE I do the dive, to help in gasplanning. I don't want to worry about the computer inserting 'microbubble stops' when I didn't expect it and creating a different schedule than my buddy.

For my money I'd prefer something a bit more reliable than the VR3. It seems that most people (if you read the many threads on here) who have them have had some problem or other, whether it is the device itself, or the algorithm, or the download software. It is the nature of marketing to ensure that 'upgrades' are available, whether warranted or not, as we have seen recently, with the colour screen, which is questionable at best. As you use the Suunto in gauge mode the only time it needs updating is when you want to, as you can just choose your own tables/deco software whenever you wish and then you are in control, not the supplier.

Andy

[chrisch]

Just bought an Apeks Quantum. Firstly, many thanks to the YD members who helped me make the decision. In the end it came down to the best reason – hard cash. I managed to get a brand new Quantum on ebay for 155 notes.

It’s too early to report on reliability but here’s a first impression if anyone is interested.

The Apeks Quantum is a re-badged Dive Rite Nitek. The display is clear and easy to read and the algorithm is the standard ZHL-12. So far so good. The strap only just fitted my bulky drysuit and is nowhere near as confidence-inspiring as the missus’ Suunto. A lanyard may be a very good idea for this model.
We did a couple of dives over the weekend, the main one being 41M for 20-odd min with EAN50 for deco. The computer handled the dive no problem and the gas switch was easy. I use V-Planner to give back up tables and the computer cleared a little sooner as we had risen to 33M by the end of the BT. (I cleared to no-stop after the 9M stop, V-Planner still needing 6 min at 3M).
The display in deco mode is clear and shows the stop time and deepest stop. This is a pain if using run time as you need to swop to the alternate display. A quick press of the button is all that is needed, but I would have preferred to see total dive time there at all times.
Backlighting is adequate and stays on for about 5 seconds. After the dive the N2 graph gradually shows off-gassing and the display includes time to totally de-saturation. I liked both these features.

All up it’s not a bad ‘puter and for the money it’s great. Not as good or as flexible as the Suunto Vytec (the PO2 is not adjustable and is 1.4 for BT and 1.6 for deco). There is the usual gauge mode to use it as a timer. Given the price this is a good machine for anyone like me that stops at 50M and would make a cheap back-up if you want more. Max working depth is 99M and 199M for gauge mode. However with no option to drop below FO2 21 and PO2 1.4 I guess the depth alarm would piss you off if you routinely do 60M+ stuff or run PO2 1.5 on BT. There is an option to switch it off……….(taken!).

RRP 225 GBP – available at Deepblue. Often on ebay at 199 or less…

Chris

[jptaylor9]

Personally I use a VR3 with a dive timer/slate as a backup. But, I'm not necessarily saying this is the way you should go.

Delta P now have a simulator on there web site (link below). Download the manuals & have a play to see what you think. Note. Deco times on the simulator are fiction, but you get a good feel for its operation. Remember you'll have to do this in the water with probably glooves on!!!

VR3 simulator:
http://www.vr3.co.uk/vr3/main.php?st...tent=simulator

Earlier posts:

VR3 News:
http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/fo...ad.php?t=11700

Colour screen:
http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/fo...ad.php?t=11955

JT

[Pez]

Thanks for the gen so far. JP useful links, thanks, I will now waste the rest of the day reading the manual and playing with the sim. Unfortunately the budget doesn't quite stretch to both a Vytec and a VR3 as that seems to be a good combo. It is going to be a slow decision process, probably looking to shell out in the new year to work up for the new diving year.
Now where are my gloves, I am off to play with the sim for a while!

[Mark Chase]

If you want to dive a computer rather than tables and you can afford it then the VR3 is the best computer on the market in the UK. Apparently VPM decompression is going to be an option soon, which will make it even more flexible. Having moved from Nitrox to Trimix and now on to CCR diving I am actually amazed how versatile the VR3 is. Yesterday I did a bimmble using the VR3 linked to an oxygen sensor (4th Cell) that constantly monitored my PP02 during the dive and calculated the deco accordingly. Amazing.

The computer has some down sides like its weight and the fact it takes a serious amount of learning to use all its facilities. The down load soft where is giving me all sorts of grief but the two VR3s I own work just fine. Early VR3s were prone to problems but versions running 2.1 onwards soft where appear stable. In my mixed gas diving group almost everyone has a VR3 and so far the only problem I have to report is a broken button. Problems are normally apparent when the unit is brand-new and DP are pretty good at sorting them. Depth sensor problems are another area where failures have apparently occurred but this is a common problem with any computer even one used in gauge mode. My Vytec's depth sensor failed in January on an 80M dive. The VR3 worked fine.

When comparing the VR3 to any other computer think of this.

With the VR3 you can:

Analyse the gas in your tanks
Save the gas analysis to your gas list
Program in up to 10 gases
Plan your dive on the wrist unit and cut tables from the projected stops
Dive Closed circuit on a set point or use a dynamic fourth sensor
Switch to Open circuit during the dive and re-compute the deco on the available back and deco gas
Manually re program any gas mix at any point during a dive
Manually decide to add deep stops and intermediate stops and the computer will alter your deco commitment accordingly


Personally I now have two VR3s and I will not use tables any more. If you don’t go that rout you will still need tables and a depth and bottom timer as bail out. All computers fail and redundancy is a necessity. It is also very important that you have a mental picture of your deco before the dive so you can tell when the computers are telling you lies.

ATB

Mark Chase

I use the Vr3 and a Uwatec dive timer with tables. I only cut tables now for the "oh shit" eventualities now like over running, lost gas etc as they can be used on computer failure as well although I have never had a subsurface failure of any computer ever.
the only problem I have had is the buttons on the Vr3, one was broken when delivered and and I had some hassle getting others to fit/work. now OK.
What would I buy if starting again? the same unless something better appears on the market.

[jptaylor9]

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by RubberBoy

I use the Vr3 and a Uwatec dive timer with tables.

Ditto. And the tables are ddplan printout for 20-60m for my 'usual' mix.
I think the buttons are bettter now but if you let salt build up all bets off so dunking it under the tap apres dive helps no end. (People's buttons always used to go flying setting it up for a dive..)

nigelH