should i buy a VR3 and where is cheapest?

[Mark Chase]

I just spent a week serching for cheep deals for a holiday in Egypt and I ended up paying £420 half board for 1 week in a 3star in Hugarda, No diving included. I reckon even staying in a hostel and diving every day your looking at the cost of a VR3 not covering a week.

If it looks like a horse, feels like a horse and smells like a horse its probably a horse.

Whats wrong with a Nitrox diver getting a VR3 rather than a Vytec? Seeing as I owned a Mares Surveyor, a Viper a Vytec and two VR3s I can tell you right now I wish I hadn't wasted money on the Vytec. I should have gone straight from the Viper to the VR3 its an infinitely better computer in every way except down load and dive logging.

The Vytec at £339 lasted me a year before it was no use any more the VR3 at £530 OC Nitrox or £699 CC Trimix could have lasted me until I packed in diving but I chose to switch to a different system. I sold them for £450 each so in the time i had them I lost less money than i did with the Vytec in a year. The Vytec is not worth selling, id be lucky to get £150 for it.

WHilst i agree that no one should dive a computer blind (or DOTF for that matter) I do feel that if your mooving inot deco diving, dont mess about, go for the VR3 or a Shearwater type computer.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Ferg3333]

Full colour C3 VR3 were on rgrg.co.uk for £775 if they are still about

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I just spent a week serching for cheep deals for a holiday in Egypt and I ended up paying £420 half board for 1 week in a 3star in Hugarda, No diving included. I reckon even staying in a hostel and diving every day your looking at the cost of a VR3 not covering a week.

Check out ThomasCook.com Select Egypt as the destination and a resort of your choice.....I am not BSing you here.

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

If it looks like a horse, feels like a horse and smells like a horse its probably a horse.

That's a bit out of order don't you think? As well as the DIR bigot impression you have of me, I am also a Recreational Diving Instructor. I recommend that my students get a dive computer as one of the first pieces of equipment they buy.

The safety it affords them in their early phases of diving are indisputable, especially over multiple days of diving whilst they are learning to perfect their buoyancy control, ascent rates and indeed all aspects of diving.

Typically their gas consumption is what is limiting them rather than bottom time so they could get away without a computer but I still recommend them because it's a good practice to monitor the dive parameters.

What bugs me though are people with more money than commitment to their sport going out and buying kit that they feel they need which does not help them sufficiently when they would gain loads more by spending that money going diving and spending time in the water becoming a better diver.

At the deeper end of diving, I'll agree with you, that the rules change and other choices come into play ... tables, computers and brains. They each have their supporters and detractors and the pros/cons are well documented.

That's not the case here though is it? To use your analogy, it's horses for courses.

Mal

P.S. Mark - You and I have the same DIRness, I believe

[Skiverdiver]

Originally Posted by tom

Just to throw a spanner in the works: don't buy one.

IIRC you are a fairly new diver. Trimix and rebreathers are some distance (years) in the future. By the time (if ever) you need a VR3 or similar, there may well be something much better on the market. Your Vyper will be absolutely fine until you get into deco diving, and even then you can run it in gauge mode.

People will tell you 'it's the only computer you'll ever need' because it's upgradeable. Ask them how much the upgrades cost (e.g. to VPM-B).

Agree...brakes on....!!

Use the Vyper for nitrox, put the thing into gauge mode for accelerated deco and use tables.......either do lots of diving or save the money for when you want a VR3 (might be able to afford the plasma! version by then - just a joke!) - guessing that the time you have done a lot more diving and training that you will start to question the need for a VR3.......

VR3's are nice - but you'll need other bits of kit for tech nitrox/trimix and the training costs are about £700-£900 (est IANTD route) for getting to trimix.

ATB

Roy

[Mark Chase]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Check out ThomasCook.com Select Egypt as the destination and a resort of your choice.....I am not BSing you here.

I am booked with Thomas Cook

That's a bit out of order don't you think? As well as the DIR bigot impression you have of me, I am also a Recreational Diving Instructor. I recommend that my students get a dive computer as one of the first pieces of equipment they buy.

Nothing to do with DIR ist just an anti computer post. Like the one imediatly above. I meet divers who prefer tables and one diver outside of DIR who uses DOTF on his YBOD. However 95% of the decompresion divers i meet have VR3's or a similar product.

The safety it affords them in their early phases of diving are indisputable, especially over multiple days of diving whilst they are learning to perfect their buoyancy control, ascent rates and indeed all aspects of diving.

Typically their gas consumption is what is limiting them rather than bottom time so they could get away without a computer but I still recommend them because it's a good practice to monitor the dive parameters.

What bugs me though are people with more money than commitment to their sport going out and buying kit that they feel they need which does not help them sufficiently when they would gain loads more by spending that money going diving and spending time in the water becoming a better diver.

VR3s, Shearwaters etc etc. are expensive but they are a lot better than Vypers or Vytecs. If someone had a shead load of money and was doing 30m air dives Id still recommend a VR3 over a Vyper. Your confusing the fact it capabul of a lot more with the fact it does everything better than a Vyper / Vytec

OK unless your planning to do deco its probably unnessary but if you are its a masive improvement on the Suunto offerings. At least it gives some formal deep stops, it wont lock out ever and it will credit off gassing time spent during ascent. When diving air in the Red Sea on Elphenstone Reef I got out with the Vytec still showing 30mins of deco but the VR3 had credited me for all the time spent at 10 and cleared ages ago.

At the deeper end of diving, I'll agree with you, that the rules change and other choices come into play ... tables, computers and brains. They each have their supporters and detractors and the pros/cons are well documented.

That's not the case here though is it? To use your analogy, it's horses for courses.

Mal

P.S. Mark - You and I have the same DIRness, I believe

This is where the confusion lies. Everyone thinks you dont get a VR3 till you go trimix. Having owend one and owned the alternative Suunto products I strongly disagree. As soon as you get into deco then get a second hand VR3 which is only slightly more expensive than a new Vytec.

The only comparison I can think of is a single tank diver getting a Salvo21W. Massivly expensuve sure and yes a UKD4 does a job but lets face it the Salvo is a thousand times better.

ATB

Mark Chase

[msdkeith]

Just chucking in my tuppence.

Looks to me Tig as though some experienced divers reckon you should hold back on the VR3 for a while and they give reasoned arguments for this. By all accounts your Vyper will be adequate for the diving you do for the coming months.

On the other hand general opinion was against you diving on twins from day 1 and by all accounts you cope admirably so there's no reason you shouldn't break the mould on computers!

Best of luck with the teeth, I've had an abscess and they are evil basta*ds...especially when they decide to burst just as you start a new pint....that looked decidedly icky.

My mate dives a VR3 and raves about it. I dive a Gecko which is fine for what I've been doing and if I progress to CCR they tend to have computers, bear that in mind.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

The only comparison I can think of is a single tank diver getting a Salvo21W. Massivly expensuve sure and yes a UKD4 does a job but lets face it the Salvo is a thousand times better.

Whilst extravagant I still think a newish diver would be better off spending the money on diving, but at least, for a torch, it's a fairly simple operation switch on switch off. Most new divers I see are unsure about the up and down button of their BCs let alone cope with the vaguaries of the long push short push of a VR3.

YD is often criticised for "pushing" divers in to getting twinsets ahead of their time....I think the VR3 falls into the same category. A standard recreational dive computer is perfect for the vast majority of divers for their whole diving life.....and leaves a lot of money left over to buy gas with.

Mal

[Adrian Kelland]

Mark,

A large number of beginner divers don't last two years and don't get past the AOW/SD type grade. Many of those probably had dreams of going on to Tri-Mix/Rebreather. After all thats how a lot of it sounds here.

You say that most of the deco divers you see have a VR3. You are in a very small minority of divers doing diving that is much deeper than the rest of us - self selection.

In my club of about 65, there are 3 or 4 VR3s (one is mine) inc 2 rebreathers. Yet a lot of deco diving, short and long, is done. Clearly not every one wants or needs a VR3.

I would not recommend a VR3 to someone who is just starting out. Let them really find out where their diving is going, rather than where they think it is going.

I take it that Ling likes using her VR3?

Adrian

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland

Mark,

A large number of beginner divers don't last two years and don't get past the AOW/SD type grade. Many of those probably had dreams of going on to Tri-Mix/Rebreather. After all thats how a lot of it sounds here.

You say that most of the deco divers you see have a VR3. You are in a very small minority of divers doing diving that is much deeper than the rest of us - self selection.

In my club of about 65, there are 3 or 4 VR3s (one is mine) inc 2 rebreathers. Yet a lot of deco diving, short and long, is done. Clearly not every one wants or needs a VR3.

I would not recommend a VR3 to someone who is just starting out. Let them really find out where their diving is going, rather than where they think it is going.

I take it that Ling likes using her VR3?

Adrian

Ling dosent do deco diving at all, but if she did I would get her a Shearwater.


OK

Air dive to 30m for 40min's

Suunto Vytec gives imediate ascent to 5m for 40mins of deco.

Doing a 5m/min ascent to 6m you arive at 6m with 44mins showing on your vytec because you ascended too slow

So Vytec

44 @ 6


VR3 gives 42mins of deco on a 5/m/min ascent rate

1 @ 19
3 @ 9
10 @ 6
28@3


Nitrox Dive

30m for 40mins on Nitrox 32%

Vytec gives 19mins @ 2.4m

Using a 5m/min ascent rate you end up with 17mins at 6m + ascent time


VR3 also gives 19mins of deco:

1 @ 17
1 @ 11
2 @ 6
15 @ 3


Sherewater GF set to 20/85GF

Air 30 for 40mins

2@15
2@12
5@9
27@6

Nitrox 32%

1 @ 12
1 @ 9
9 @ 6


Thease are single 15ltr and pony dives.

Now you tell me which computer YOU would rather folow?

ATB

Mark Chase

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Ling dosent do deco diving at all, but if she did I would get her a Shearwater.

Shouldn't that be her choice?

AIUI, Ling is not unusual in being a UK based clear water holiday diver? This is quite common. Many who start diving stop at this level.

OK

Air dive to 30m for 40min's

Suunto Vytec gives imediate ascent to 5m for 40mins of deco.

Doing a 5m/min ascent to 6m you arive at 6m with 44mins showing on your vytec because you ascended too slow

So Vytec

44 @ 6


VR3 gives 42mins of deco on a 5/m/min ascent rate

1 @ 19
3 @ 9
10 @ 6
28@3


Nitrox Dive

30m for 40mins on Nitrox 32%

Vytec gives 19mins @ 2.4m

Using a 5m/min ascent rate you end up with 17mins at 6m + ascent time


VR3 also gives 19mins of deco:

1 @ 17
1 @ 11
2 @ 6
15 @ 3


Sherewater GF set to 20/85GF

Air 30 for 40mins

2@15
2@12
5@9
27@6

Nitrox 32%

1 @ 12
1 @ 9
9 @ 6


Thease are single 15ltr and pony dives.

Now you tell me which computer YOU would rather folow?

ATB

Mark Chase

If you have a good SAC, just about doable with 15l/232/Air (3480 litres), but running on empty at the end. Your first example with a SAC of 18 (not uncommon stress free rate) is a plan waiting for an out of gas to happen - (40x18x4bar)+(44x18x1.6)=4147 litres. Even allowing for the pony - shame on you. (And shame on me if I still have my numbers wrong after repeat checking )

However, my issue is not about appropriateness of one deco implementation over another, but the assumption that everyone goes on to to the kind of diving where a VR3 becomes a useful tool. Most don't last that long, even when they think they will when they start.

Adrian