Counterdiffusion discussion

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

I guess this is adding to what I've come to believe, that OC trimix is dead.

Arse! Just wasted three grand........

Under the counter bar what?

Chris

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by And

LMAO (spits coffee all over keyboard)

He has a point you know.

Your beloved cave diving has passed beyond the limitations of OC. CCR is the only way forwards in that dicipline. Arguably the only way safley past 100m in OW diving is also CCR. The task loading and logistics of using the RB80 is not ideal either so what we are realy looking for is an electronicly controled CCR with fail safe reliabuiility. Thats the future in diving, OC is in its death throws. Get the cost down and the safety up on CCR and its game over for OC.

ATB

Mark Chase

[And]

No Mark, I disagree

I saw loads and loads of cave divers in Florida. Only one had a CCR and that was an instructor, with two OC students (bad form I think). Many, many people just go there on air or nitrox and do pleasure dives. In fact some of these divers have never seen the ocean, to them diving a cave is just the same as a stoney cove pleasure trip. The guys who do longer dives tend to use 30/30, but they would still need enough OC gas or a redundant breather to get them out, unless you want to put all your eggs in one basket, which as a cave diver, you don't. The breather would get some bashing too, and so the unit would have to be very sturdy to withstand just a couple of seasons, not all fragile, and cluttered like the Inspiration.

Rebreathers have become popular for deep long exploration, that is true, but that is a minute percentage of the diving populace, never mind the cave diving populace. The trimix dives I have done over the last year I wouldn't think of doing them on CCR, there is no upside for me. One gas switch at 21 mtrs is hardly complicated compared to the tasks of running a CCR.

If you think you need the tool then use it, but lets not lose sight of the fact that for most dives OC is far far simpler and will be for quite some time.

Andy

[Finless]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Get the cost down and the safety up on CCR.

ATB
Mark Chase

That is one mean sense of humour you have.

Anyway, with the onset of nuclear fusion power, helium (a by product - if I can believe what I hear on TV) will be as cheap as chips and far cheaper than fish. OC helium diving will be easily affordable.

Sell your YBOD while they still have a good second hand value!

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Finless

Sell your YBOD while they still have a good second hand value!

£300 - do you take PayPal?

Chris

[Mdemon]

Originally Posted by And

If you think you need the tool then use it, but lets not lose sight of the fact that for most dives OC is far far simpler and will be for quite some time.

Andy

I think you should suck one and see. I am so new to CCR as a Box pilot, that I haven't even left the hanger, but I do know that the faff of doing a deep dive OC is many times that of the Box. This became very clear to me as I was running around like a blue-ar*ed fly getting ready for a mix dive - whilst my instructor (using my Box) sat and grinned. And waddling along wearing twin-15's and 2x10's kind of proved the point just a wee bit more...

I think CCR is a progressive piece of kit from OC. However I do see the time where more will switch earlier from OC. OC is here to stay because of the simplicty - it is a great tool to teach in-water skills to newbies and to allow them to develop those skills to the point at which they are capable/willing to progress further...

Why not try one? You might just like it... (Queue Dr Pepper music...)

I even invented a DIR DIY unit - I'll see if I can post it later... Hog-looping was a bitch...

[And]

Originally Posted by Mdemon

This became very clear to me as I was running around like a blue-ar*ed fly getting ready for a mix dive - whilst my instructor (using my Box) sat and grinned. And waddling along wearing twin-15's and 2x10's kind of proved the point just a wee bit more...

I think CCR is a progressive piece of kit from OC. However I do see the time where more will switch earlier from OC. OC is here to stay because of the simplicty - it is a great tool to teach in-water skills to newbies and to allow them to develop those skills to the point at which they are capable/willing to progress further...

Why not try one? You might just like it... (Queue Dr Pepper music...)

I even invented a DIR DIY unit - I'll see if I can post it later... Hog-looping was a bitch...

You can do a 60+ mtr dive on box with no bailout? Get outta here!

Now you might run around like a blue arsed fly for a dive. I suggest that if you do that for an OC dive you will do it for a CCR dive, it has nothing to do with the equipment. I definitely don't. Anyone who's seen me dive knows its a generally relaxed affair.

I have no probs seeing what one is like, in water I can stand up in, although I don't want to breathe someone elses spit if its all the same to you. I have serious doubts that it will persuade me CCR's are simpler than OC, but, as I say the same so often to the DIR cynics, of course I'd try it.

I have my own answer to better gas consumption, been playing with my Gavin over the last few weeks, much more fun, everyone should have one

Andy

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by And

You can do a 60+ mtr dive on box with no bailout? Get outta here!

Andy has you there Mr. Mdemon.
And what's worse is that we have to carry it all back up the ladder aprés dive.

If I had discovered the three minute pre-breath years ago I'd have used a lot less gas OC. That's why the instructor looked calm and relaxed.

nigelH
Once an advocate of many DIR ideas but now turned to the yellow side.

[tom]

Originally Posted by nigelH

If I had discovered the three minute pre-breath years ago I'd have used a lot less gas OC. That's why the instructor looked calm and relaxed.

Explanation for us nosey OC people please? What's that all about and why would you use less gas?

[Andy Phillips]

Originally Posted by And

You can do a 60+ mtr dive on box with no bailout? Get outta here!

Now you might run around like a blue arsed fly for a dive. I suggest that if you do that for an OC dive you will do it for a CCR dive, it has nothing to do with the equipment. I definitely don't. Anyone who's seen me dive knows its a generally relaxed affair.

I have no probs seeing what one is like, in water I can stand up in, although I don't want to breathe someone elses spit if its all the same to you. I have serious doubts that it will persuade me CCR's are simpler than OC, but, as I say the same so often to the DIR cynics, of course I'd try it.

I have my own answer to better gas consumption, been playing with my Gavin over the last few weeks, much more fun, everyone should have one

Andy

Andy,

This is perhaps the most contensious point of the CCR, diving without bailout. Mark and I differ on this point, I would and fully intend to dive the unit deep without carrying stages. The point being that a well maintained unit is no more dangerous than well maintained OC kit. Although I will have a bottle on the boat as a CYA (cover your A***). So far, I admit that my CCR dive was anything but relaxed, but that will came with familiarisation. The main issue for me is that twin 15's with 3 stage dives, that and the gas cost particually this season with so many blown out dives, the gas cost of holding multiple twin sets with unused gas in them.

The unit can be used in a SCR "mode", it is possible to strap extra dil and O2 to the box which is what I am in the process of working out, all this should provide you with enough options to get you to 9M where the drop tank comes into play. The one and only major bummer comes with a total loop flood, your stuffed at that point. All you have is the remains of the internal 3l plus the 3l which will be strapped to the unit. But even then, this should be enough to get you to a point where you can get you drop tank down. If you are stck in a wreck, well, you get much more time to contemplate your impending demise.

Reality, deep wreck diveing is dangerous, deep wreck penetration is more so whether it is with OC or CCR. Cave diving is a different issue and not one I can really comment on.

Take care,

Andrew