BSAC 88 tables revealed?

[And]

Originally Posted by Janos

I think the general argument about teaching primary donate is that it's not standard across the world, and we ought to have a commonality of approach.

C'mon mate, since when has BSAC ever cared about the rest of the world?

As I recall I was actually taught to donate from the mouth in the old club diver scheme, as I learnt with an AIR2 type jacket, and that wasn't too long ago. One reason stated by one of the BSAC technical guys is that they do not want peoples first instinct to be to pull a reg out of the donors mouth, due to the increase in rebreather divers.

BSAC has a hard-on for Inspirations at the moment, thats plain to see, and this is/has influenced their policies.

Anyway, I don't want to get all irate about BSAC, as its not worth spending any time on

Andy

[Janos]

Originally Posted by And

Not OW students, but on certain other courses and levels of diver who will be on OC, just to make that clear. See here http://www.bsac.org/techserv/rrc/training.htm

Am I missing something here? I teach and I will be probably going CCR at some point in the future. Reading the above it seems that if I'm teaching a qualified SD to become a DL, then I can do so on a rebreather (excepting the rescue stuff, which is fair enough.

This seems sensible enough to me, but from what you're saying it causes you concern?

Just curious as I haven't come across this view before and it would be good to understand where you're coming from.

Laters,
Janos

[Janos]

Originally Posted by And

Anyway, I don't want to get all irate about BSAC, as its not worth spending any time on

Sorry there - been a bit of crossing of posts going on. I don't think the argument was just about rebreather divers, but that most divers in the UK and elsewhere won't be expecting it and so it's a bad thing to teach it from day one.

But we can have this argument for aaaages, and still not get anywhere. More importantly it's a Friday (all day!) and I'm going diving tomorrow

Laters,
Janos

[And]

Hi

Of what help are the students going to be to you if you have a problem?

Will the students have any idea you are having a problem being that they may be focussing on their own dive?

Will you have any idea you have a problem, should you need to help your students and become taskloaded yourself ?

Thats all really

Andy

[Darren27]

All instructors teaching at any grade should asume that they are diving solo and should plan accordingly. The Instructor who relies on a trainee to help out with a problem has not fully completed even the most basic of risk assesment.

BSAC and hard ons for Inspiractions, that will be why they have just introduced their own traing for them then.

As to the BSAC 88 tables having no data behind them, there was a very interesting comment made at the DOC. Jean Pierre someone or other, French guy from Comex made the comment that there were 3 main sources of data for reasearchers to use when modeling deco, the french Comex database, with over 64000 dives, the Aberdeen hyperbaric centre database and the US navy. The French and British databases "Dissapered" some years ago and the US navy does not allow any public access to their data. All the modern fancy PC based software hich are based on things like RGBM all have no data behind them. They all are based on theoretical modelling only. So BSAC were actually way ahead of things when they produced tables with no real data behind them.

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by And

Not OW students, but on certain other courses and levels of diver who will be on OC, just to make that clear. See here http://www.bsac.org/techserv/rrc/training.htm

I'm perplexed. That makes perfect sense to me.

You can't teach OD and SD from a CCR as you don't ask somebody who hasn't even made SD yet to understand the differences. Much of the teaching at that level is "do what I do". However a DL candidate should be more than able to buddy you and learn from you. What's the problem?

nigelH

[wreckweasel]

Originally Posted by And

Not OW students, but on certain other courses and levels of diver who will be on OC, just to make that clear. See here http://www.bsac.org/techserv/rrc/training.htm

Aha, fairy snuff I guess, as long as the instructor is carrying a donatable gas supply of sufficient volume (ie not rely on inboard 3L).

It'll make for an interesting risk assessment though!

[tiewrapdiver]

This whole donating out the mouth with BSAC is b*ll*cks in my opinion, I've seen many divers in the clubs i'm in get a twinset and a 2m hose, and start using that technique, myself included. However i did no real training, until i did my TDI stuff with Andy H and after having my reg pulled out 2 or 3 times per dive i'm happy with that technique now. I think doanting out of the mouth should be taught in BSAC training at DL possibly in SD but definately on ERD courses.

I understand the reason behind not teaching it to new trainees on single tanks, but on a twinset that method just isnt realistic, especially if your on indies, i like by backup reg bungeed round my neck for me and me only, and the OOA diver to take the nice long hosed yellow reg one out of my mouth. To be honest they'll probably only see the one in my mouth as its yellow, and my back up is black on a black background.

I've heard 88' tables nicked named as death tables, certainly comparing deep dives on 88 to USN tables or Bulhmann i can see why.

Tim

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Darren27

Jean Pierre someone or other, French guy from Comex

Imbert.

He's IANTD France blokie I believe.

JS Haldane started it all off testing goats, of all things, never seen one underwater myself. Its gone downhill from there.

Chris

[NotDeadYet]

VPM was tested on pots of jelly. That's why I always have a small trifle before and after diving.