stage positioning

[bob wippin]

I know I ask a lot of questions about stages and rigging them and stuff. So here is another one! I am not DIR, but like most of what I know about the DIR style.

At the moment the most I run is 2x7litre stages. One under each arm. But I have been thinking of the advantages of adding a third. Then getting used to it before an advanced trimix course sometime in the not too distant future.

I know you DIR guys hang two on one side the entire time. What chest D-ring is this clipped on to? Do you use the same length reg hose on all stages. Are the straps rigged the same, or is one slacker to hang a bit better. I also recall hearing something somewhere about having a stage hung on a lesh. Could someone explain/show a pic of what this is about.

Please go easy on any DIR ignorance this may be showing

[johnkendall]

Originally Posted by bob wippin

I know I ask a lot of questions about stages and rigging them and stuff. So here is another one! I am not DIR, but like most of what I know about the DIR style.

At the moment the most I run is 2x7litre stages. One under each arm. But I have been thinking of the advantages of adding a third. Then getting used to it before an advanced trimix course sometime in the not too distant future.

I know you DIR guys hang two on one side the entire time. What chest D-ring is this clipped on to? Do you use the same length reg hose on all stages. Are the straps rigged the same, or is one slacker to hang a bit better. I also recall hearing something somewhere about having a stage hung on a lesh. Could someone explain/show a pic of what this is about.

Please go easy on any DIR ignorance this may be showing

The first 2 Stages/Deco Bottles are clipped between the left shoulder D-ring and the left hip D-ring. Additional bottles are clipped with the neck clip only either to a leash, or directly onto the left hip. If you have more than 3 stage/deco bottles then it pretty much mandates the use of a leash.

We use the same length hoses on all deco/stage bottles. All the bottles are rigged the same. That way any bottle can be put in any position.

The leash is a small loop made of about 10" of rope (4-5mm dia) with a small length of Tube fitted on it. This is clipped to the D-ring with a double ender, and stages/deco bottles can then be clipped to it.

HTH
J

[GLOC]

This message has been deleted by And. Reason: i don't see the need for multiple links to other websites thanks.

Fair Do's Andy, apologies.

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by bob wippin

I know I ask a lot of questions about stages and rigging them and stuff. So here is another one! I am not DIR, but like most of what I know about the DIR style.

At the moment the most I run is 2x7litre stages. One under each arm. But I have been thinking of the advantages of adding a third. Then getting used to it before an advanced trimix course sometime in the not too distant future.

I know you DIR guys hang two on one side the entire time. What chest D-ring is this clipped on to? Do you use the same length reg hose on all stages. Are the straps rigged the same, or is one slacker to hang a bit better. I also recall hearing something somewhere about having a stage hung on a lesh. Could someone explain/show a pic of what this is about.

Please go easy on any DIR ignorance this may be showing

Hi buddy,

Stage rigging, handeling and clipping is actually one of the finer parts of multi gas diving. When done in a way that is comfy, you can get away with using, what seems, unlimited numbers of stages. The important part being getting training and then practice with a good friend.

I don't agree with Kendal. I think that you should never have more than 1 stage under your left arm clipped on both ends. All other stages other than the one you are using, or going to use next, should be nose clipped to your rear hip d-ring. Never have more than a total of 3 stages, after that, you use a leash. So you have one under your arm and 2 nose clipped. More or less good for down to 75 meters with up to 20 minutes bottom time.

The trick is in moving them around. Which you could get used to.

Now to get this all working, you also have to make all you stages neutral. That would mean doing away with the 7s and sticking with Ali 80s. You can, of course have full tanks, but they tend to sag a lot. Best is to have them to 120 bar or so so that they are more neutral. If a full deco 50 is requiered, then you can use 50/25 to keep it riding high while full.

Now keep in mind, that I have not found any real DIR way to do this. Within GUE, as far as I can see, they have no standard way. Except that all stages are on the left, which is cool.

[wreckweasel]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly

I think that you should never have more than 1 stage under your left arm clipped on both ends. All other stages other than the one you are using, or going to use next, should be nose clipped to your rear hip d-ring.

/NOT DIR WARNING

Everyones entitled to an opinion. In my opinion thats just increasing the risk of losing a stage. Of course its probably been driven by the fact that you're using 80's (which are bulky), or are scootering (in which case nose clipped stages 'trim' nicely, but are still more likely to get lost).

I typically run an 80 and a 7 for ocean stuff, both clipped left side and both clipped top and bottom (Bob, they clip to the single d-ring at the collar bone and the single d ring on the left hip). 3 Stages is a bugger this way, but still do-able by rigging the tail clip length appropriately.

Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly

Now to get this all working, you also have to make all you stages neutral. That would mean doing away with the 7s and sticking with Ali 80s. You can, of course have full tanks, but they tend to sag a lot. Best is to have them to 120 bar or so so that they are more neutral. If a full deco 50 is requiered, then you can use 50/25 to keep it riding high while full.

Most UK people quite happily use 7's, lets not exaggerate the problem here. Of course, the old style 7's are nicer. 80's are nice, but they dont half get bouyant if you need to drain them, be prepared to clip them onto your DSMB and send them up.

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by GLOC

Fair Do's Andy, apologies.

Let me guess? Lots of links to Backspaffers.com, by any chance?

Actually I'm with And on this one - I personally find it annoying that posters constantly try to direct people away from YD to DIRX. Whilst I appreciate that your intentions are honourable, Gareth, it does get a tad tiresome after a while. YD has its own DIR section and if people want to discuss DIR issues, they should be able to get the answers they want right here without being drawn off to another forum... all that does is stifle discussion here on YD. There's room enough for both, if you ask me!

Getting back on topic, am I the only one that finds 2 x ALI80s filled to 200 bar easier to trim out than two heavy UK 7s?! I personally find the ALI7's *heavier* in the water! Other than the extra bulk of the 80s, I really don't see the problem!

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

/NOT DIR WARNING

Everyones entitled to an opinion. In my opinion thats just increasing the risk of losing a stage. Of course its probably been driven by the fact that you're using 80's (which are bulky), or are scootering (in which case nose clipped stages 'trim' nicely, but are still more likely to get lost).

I typically run an 80 and a 7 for ocean stuff, both clipped left side and both clipped top and bottom (Bob, they clip to the single d-ring at the collar bone and the single d ring on the left hip). 3 Stages is a bugger this way, but still do-able by rigging the tail clip length appropriately.



Most UK people quite happily use 7's, lets not exaggerate the problem here. Of course, the old style 7's are nicer. 80's are nice, but they dont half get bouyant if you need to drain them, be prepared to clip them onto your DSMB and send them up.

Well, if you are using an ali 40, then you could have it snug under an 80. But still a pain and too much clutter.

There is no reason for a scooter here as, like I said, the stages should all be neutral or positive. You can achieve this by either filling tanks with smaller amount of gas OR using the correct gas mixtures such as 50/25.

The only way to be sure you won't loose your stages is practice practice and more practice.
I have seen one situation where a stage was lost under the water. No worries, as they had the lost stage preocedure all worked out.

As far as I have been told by RL, JJ, BS, DR: the ali 80 is the best suited cylinder for dir stage configurations.

If you have a team that is following protocal, the loss of a stage is very unlikley. The quality it adds to the dive is excellent.

[wreckweasel]

Ahmed,

The points I was making are;

1. A Nose clipped stage is inherently more likely to be lost than one clipped both top and bottom, regardless of your procedures.
2. You can quite happily carry more than one stage this way.
3. Whilst 80's may well be "best" a 7 is perfectly useable.

Thats all

Oh and I know of more than one case of people losing nose clipped/leashed stages, but none yet of double attached stages being lost......

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

Ahmed,

The points I was making are;

1. A Nose clipped stage is inherently more likely to be lost than one clipped both top and bottom, regardless of your procedures.
2. You can quite happily carry more than one stage this way.
3. Whilst 80's may well be "best" a 7 is perfectly useable.

Thats all

Oh and I know of more than one case of people losing nose clipped/leashed stages, but none yet of double attached stages being lost......

Please. don't understand me wrong. You can surely use double clipped stages and be sure they won't "run away". But when you start doing the more stage involved dives, you will have to re-learn that method anyway.

A great problem many agencies have is not teaching people early on the finer parts of stage handeling. As I did for years