Equipment Config simply wrong outside Florida?

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by nickb

I learned to dive before the octopus became widely used. We learned buddy-breathing. I was comfortable being under water without a regulator in my mouth from day one. I don't remember hearing horror stories of training going pear-shaped.

If you can find it. You know it's somewhere amongst all the other paraphernalia, but you know for sure that that thing stuck in your buddies gob is 'good to go'. Equally your well-trained buddy with a bungied second stage below his chin has no problems either.

Like I said numbers game.

You can make it as hard or easy as you like, but an agency needs a
harmonised approach that fits the demographic.

As for horror stories, then you couldnt have been listening that hard.
It was after a few of these that BSAC dropped BB

But ...........

Bit of a contradiction with your last comment. Apparently your well trained
buddy is ok with donating primary/switching to necklaced, but cant
manage to clip an occi in a visable place and keep it out of the muck !!!!!!!!!

Not looking to start a ruck, but can we have a bit of common here.

A good reason for long hose is so that you know that the gas is the
right mix for that depth. A bad reason is that an occi is not visible or in
the muck. If you can train for one you can train for the other.

[RichW]

Originally Posted by milldog

forgive me if I'm wrong but any horizontal ascent with a casualty will result in trapped air pockets in the lungs and cause damage.

if they are unconscious they should be heads up to expel the air with the best results, if your horizontal thats OK because you breath out with force a unconscious casualty wouldn't?

Graham

Well, I do horizontal ascents all the time, and nothing seems to get trapped (in my lungs anyway ).

When lifting a casualty, the airway MUST be open though, or the situation you describe may occur. Opening the airway gives a clear exit path for any expanding gas in the lungs.

Rich

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by RichW

Well, I do horizontal ascents all the time, and nothing seems to get trapped (in my lungs anyway ).

When lifting a casualty, the airway MUST be open though, or the situation you describe may occur. Opening the airway gives a clear exit path for any expanding gas in the lungs.

Rich

Thats what he said wasnt it?

[milldog]

Originally Posted by RichW

Well, I do horizontal ascents all the time, and nothing seems to get trapped (in my lungs anyway ).

When lifting a casualty, the airway MUST be open though, or the situation you describe may occur. Opening the airway gives a clear exit path for any expanding gas in the lungs.

Rich

if your doing horizontal ascents you breathing out so i didn't think that would be the case

but for a casualty being lifted that way yes you will get some air from the casualty but it is far better for them if you was to lift them heads up as air can then pass freely out of the mouth vertically, it's the natural path for air to be exhaled from the body, as we walk upright and don't crawl on our stomachs (well some do )

Graham

[SoggyFox]

could you do the horizontal lift with the casualty on their back, wouldn't it mean the neck is extended without needing to be held.

[gobfish1]

Come on now lad/lady s call it a day,
you got 8 pages no line a good days work, Well done , nice v nice team work ,

[RichW]

Originally Posted by milldog

but for a casulty being lifted that way yes you will get some air from the casulty but it is far better for them if you was to lift them heads up as air can then pass freely out of the mouth vertically,

Graham

Hmm. I'm not convinced that being horizontal with an open airway would impede airflow as long as the airway was open. There's no physical obstruction, so as the gas expands, it just moves along to the mouth and out. I don't see where it could get trapped.

Rich

[nickb]

Originally Posted by TerryH

As for horror stories, then you couldnt have been listening that hard.
It was after a few of these that BSAC dropped BB

I would have thought they'd drop it as it was a crap way of dealing with an OOA emergency and fraught with problems if you were forced to execute it for real. Are you suggesting trainees were dropping like flies in the pool?

Originally Posted by TerryH

Bit of a contradiction with your last comment. Apparently your well trained buddy is ok with donating primary/switching to necklaced, but cant manage to clip an occi in a visable place and keep it out of the muck !!!!!!!!!

These are two different buddies we're dealing with Terry. The buddies that I dive with are the first ones. Apparently there are many people who fall into the second category, but I don't dive with them.

Originally Posted by TerryH

A good reason for long hose is so that you know that the gas is the right mix for that depth. A bad reason is that an occi is not visible or in the muck. If you can train for one you can train for the other.

The reg that's in the mouth (long hose or not) should be the right gas for the depth. Believe me Terry, I've dived with people who haven't been able to locate their own octopus; even though they clipped the frigging thing there within the last half-hour. If they can't find it in a hurry how the fuck do they expect me to be able to use it?

When trained properly, I see no downsides to the long-hose primary, bungied-necklaced backup combination. The problems with the octopus setup are legion, even when used by otherwise accomplished divers.

[Garf]

Originally Posted by SoggyFox

could you do the horizontal lift with the casualty on their back, wouldn't it mean the neck is extended without needing to be held.

not convinced the neck would be extended "enough". you have to make sure that the neck is completely extended to guarantee the airway is open and allowing it to just fall back might be not enough. you'd end up having to come up with a method that would allow you to "push" the head back when you were facing them, which strikes me as more uncomfortable..

As for trapped air pockets, I don't get this one. If the casualty is breathing, which hopefully they are because you have the airway open, then there won't be pockets, as demonstrated by anyone who ascends horizontally. IF the casualy is not breathing, then you have more pressing matters to hand..

[SoggyFox]

Originally Posted by Garf

not convinced the neck would be extended "enough". you have to make sure that the neck is completely extended to guarantee the airway is open and allowing it to just fall back might be not enough.

going to have to have a look at that, i would of though that unless the head is obstructed if your lying on your back then the airway would open fully, i suppose if theres a manifold behind the head that would stop it fully extending.