DIR single tank reg configuration

[RobbieS]

Originally Posted by Garf

Ok, if you are interested, we don't place a lot of empasis on redundant kit, because we dive as a team and see all the team resources as part of our own kit. for example, I have a depth gauge, but so do my buddies. If I make a mistake on the deco, there are two people to pick me up on it. If I lose a mask, we have three spares between us. If I drop a timer, there are another two still working. It all depends on how you view the other people you are diving with. If they are critical to your dive plan, then you see a seperation as a critical failure and abort the dive immediately as you have lost all access to the resources they are carrying.

What you are discovering, to be honest, is the same thing everyone discovers about DIR when they start asking questions about it - cherry picking the equipment seems to leave holes that don't make sense unless you look at the whole picture.

Thanks for that, it's a really interesting philosophy, the strength of which is highlighted by my questioning of it. The 'problems' that I could see and that others have mentioned when speaking about DIR are based on a 'taking care of number one' attitude I guess.

The idea of team diving really appeals to me and of course when you point out how much equipment is actually available in the water it makes a lot of sense.

Thanks.

Rob

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by RobbieS

Thanks for that, it's a really interesting philosophy, the strength of which is highlighted by my questioning of it. The 'problems' that I could see and that others have mentioned when speaking about DIR are based on a 'taking care of number one' attitude I guess.

The idea of team diving really appeals to me and of course when you point out how much equipment is actually available in the water it makes a lot of sense.

'Taking care of number one'? Whoever told you that clearly doesn't understand the DIR system - DIR couldn't be any less about the 'self' if they tried! DIR is all about 'team' - pure and simple. Anyway, I digress...

First of all, it's important that you don't get too obsessed with the term 'DIR' - if you go around reading about DIR on the internet, you'll soon get the idea that the world of tech diving begins and ends with DIR and nothing of any interest or value exists outside of it. This couldn't be further from the truth. DIR is just another diving system. It's one amongst many, all of which have the same basic goal - to allow you to do the dives that you want to do safely and competently.

It's worth bearing in mind that very little of what you perceive as being 'DIR' was actually invented by the DIR peeps. Much of the kit configuration, for example, is based on the 'Hogarithian' kit configuration pioneered by US cave divers like Bill Gavin and Bill Hogarth Main. Certainly the kit-related questions you've asked so far haven't been DIR specific - the kit configuration you're looking to buy into is used by TDI, IANTD, PSA, ANDI and DSAT divers the world over!

Others have mentioned the DIR system of team diving which is definately one of its strengths. Bear in mind that team diving and many of the other procedures aren't DIR-specific either so don't get too focused on DIR unless this is definately the route you want to take. DIR is a very good system but there are plenty of other tech agencies who train divers who are just as safe and just as competent - it really is down to the quality of the instructor...

I'll be the first to admit that I'm very DIR in my approach to diving but I'm also very open to what other agencies have to offer. If you're looking to go tech, go tech with your eyes open - explore all the agencies and what they have to offer, weigh up the options, ask lots of questions and then make your choice what best suits your style of diving. What you'll find is that a lot of the standards and procedures that the various tech agencies teach is very, very similar - as I said, GUE didn't invent most of what they teach. What any tech agency will teach you is their take on what are very, very similar concepts. GUE used to be the only agency to teach the 'DIR' system of diving but even that is changing these days - NAUI, for example, now offer DIR training that's just as good as anything that GUE offer - but then it should be as one of the senior figures within NAUI is the ex technical training director of GUE who authored many of their training packages!

Some instructors working for other agencies will also teach tech courses with a 'DIR flavour' - whilst not 100% DIR in the GUE sense of the word, they certainly manage to train very well rounded, 'sorted' thinking divers so they've got to be doing something right! (if you'll pardon the pun). Once again, it goes to prove that what really matters is not the cost of the course or the agency you train with but the quality of the instructor - everyone's got their favourite and mine is still Phil Short. Others on here will recommend Mark Powell and Martin Robson is also very good - that's just three names who you'll be virtually guarrantteed to get quality training that's just as good as anything DIR can offer!

What sets GUE aside is the strict control over standards which ensures that regardless of which GUE instructor taught you, you can (mostly) be sure that another DIR diver will follow exactly the same standards and procedures as you. Other tech agencies, however, do allow their instructors to be a lot more creative with how they teach key aspects of their courses. This can lead to minor confusion when diving with other tech divers not trained by the same instructor as you.

BTW - Here's an interesting insight into what the DIR pioneers think of Bill Hogarth Main...
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[adam f]

Bardo,

Great reply IMO - gives a rounded perspective I think. As you say it is easy when doing your research to assume that DIR is the only way - I like the DIR way of things, but its nice to hear / see other views as well.

Adam

[RobbieS]

Originally Posted by Bardo

'Taking care of number one'? Whoever told you that clearly doesn't understand the DIR system - DIR couldn't be any less about the 'self' if they tried! DIR is all about 'team' - pure and simple. Anyway, I digress...

Slow down pal and read my post again. I'm saying that thinking about your own back ups rather than those that could be provided by your buddies is looking after number or certainly more towards each for themself. Maybe I didn't word it very well but the fact I didn't first think of others equipment as 'back up' demonstrates a certain way of thinking about diving and those you dive with.

Thank you for the rest of the advice. As I said I'm very new to diving in general, no where near 'going tech', I just like to know what's out there and the configuration that I heard of through reading about DiR seemed logical to me. Since this is where I heard it from I called it DiR.

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by RobbieS

Slow down pal and read my post again. I'm saying that thinking about your own back ups rather than those that could be provided by your buddies is looking after number or certainly more towards each for themself. Maybe I didn't word it very well but the fact I didn't first think of others equipment as 'back up' demonstrates a certain way of thinking about diving and those you dive with.

Agreed - it was bad wording on your part. What I think you were actually talking about is 'self sufficiency' which is still no bad thing, whether you're DIR or not. Fact is, it's important not to become *too* reliant on the people you dive with to get you out of the sh*t - your buddy's should be there to support you, not to serve as your 'get out of jail card'... such an attitude to safety certainly wouldn't be DIR!

BTW - Calling someone 'pal' isn't a good way to encourage others to continue giving you advice!

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by Bardo

Agreed - it was bad wording on your part. What I think you were actually talking about is 'self sufficiency' which is still no bad thing, whether you're DIR or not. Fact is, it's important not to become *too* reliant on the people you dive with to get you out of the sh*t - your buddy's should be there to support you, not to serve as your 'get out of jail card'... such an attitude to safety certainly wouldn't be DIR!

BTW - Calling someone 'pal' isn't a good way to encourage others to continue giving you advice!

Jason - I read Robbies first post and thought similar - but then decided (because of the content of the rest of this thread ) that his words were not very well constructed..

You could chill out too young man - or is it a full moon this evening?

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by wilbo

Jason - I read Robbies first post and thought similar - but then decided (because of the content of the rest of this thread ) that his words were not very well constructed...

lol! I give up, I really do... time to go do something far less boring instead (pop quiz - what's that a line from? Let's see who will be the first to show off what an old fart they are!)

[neilh]

Originally Posted by Bardo

Let's see who will be the first to show off what an old fart they are!)

Nah, why don't you?

[Miss Roxy Chablis]

To bring it back on track Robbie:

IMHO

DS4 1st
XTX40 x2 seconds
7' (210) primary hose with boltsnap tied close to reg with caveline
24" backup hose (I've found 22" is too short on a single tank setup)
Simple generic cheap SPG on a 24" hose with boltsnap tied on with caveline
Uwatec depth timer (on your right wrist)

Will work just fine and is cost effective an totally upgradable as your diving progresses.

And Jason is spot on - always keep reviewing and questioning and taking advice from everyone - no one individual or organisation has the monopoly on the truth. For my money DIR has much to offer with very few drawbacks.

HTH

[RobbieS]

Sorry if I came across badly in my original post and with the use of the word 'pal'. I'll say it again, I was talking about attitude that there seems to be where you should be able cover yourself unless you are OOA, the team diving concept opens up the opporunity for greater support and back up that I hadn't considered. I'm not really concerned with whatever label one chooses to place on it, or who 'invented it', it just seems like a good idea to me.

Originally Posted by Howard Payne

To bring it back on track Robbie:

IMHO

DS4 1st
XTX40 x2 seconds
7' (210) primary hose with boltsnap tied close to reg with caveline
24" backup hose (I've found 22" is too short on a single tank setup)
Simple generic cheap SPG on a 24" hose with boltsnap tied on with caveline
Uwatec depth timer (on your right wrist)

Will work just fine and is cost effective an totally upgradable as your diving progresses.

And Jason is spot on - always keep reviewing and questioning and taking advice from everyone - no one individual or organisation has the monopoly on the truth. For my money DIR has much to offer with very few drawbacks.

HTH

Thanks Howard.