Long hose question

[ShinyD]

Ok. I hope this doesn't prove to be as contentious as my last question involving wings! Bear with me whilst I explain where the question comes from...

I have a long hose to go with the twinset and will be instructed in the correct use and deployment of it before pressing it into action, but I have a query that was brought to light the other night in the pub club meeting.

Again, it was on the back of the rescue scenario we'd done in the pool, and it was stated that in an OOA situation the donator wanted the OOA diver as close to him as possible 'as it was his [the donators] air and he wanted full control over what happened to it'. Basically the concern brought up was the OOA diver grabbing the Octo, stuffing it in their mouth and holding it there whilst bolting for the surface. It was also said that they wanted to be able to monitor the OOA diver via eye contact on the ascent.

Now, to a relatively inexperienced diver like myself this makes sense, other than there isn't enough hose length to keep a panicking diver at arms length comfortably should the situation require it.

My concern about a long hose is that suddenly you have this OOA diver up to 7 feet away and able to take what actions they like, effectively out of your control radius and easily out of eye contact.

I understand the long hose use in cave or wreck situations, but I'd like to hear the definitive argument for it's use in open water please?

[MarkP]

Originally Posted by ShinyD

...It was also said that they wanted to be able to monitor the OOA diver via eye contact on the ascent.

Now, to a relatively inexperienced diver like myself this makes sense, other than there isn't enough hose length to keep a panicking diver at arms length comfortably should the situation require it.

That's about it. I've done it for real on a few occasions, once with a "standard" set up, once with me on and Auto Air and once deploying a long hose.

Guess which was the easiest, by a country mile.

[SilvaFish]

Take hose with right hand and pull if the OOA diver gets a bit greedy! No honestly, no matter what length of hose, I wouldn't have thought that you don't want OOA diver to be more than an arm's length away in open water situations. (Obviously if in a wreck or cave, and the divers need to go single file, then that's different, but have never done that myself or got the training. Phew, arse covered.)

[johnkendall]

Originally Posted by ShinyD

Ok. I hope this doesn't prove to be as contentious as my last question involving wings! Bear with me whilst I explain where the question comes from...

I have a long hose to go with the twinset and will be instructed in the correct use and deployment of it before pressing it into action, but I have a query that was brought to light the other night in the pub club meeting.

Again, it was on the back of the rescue scenario we'd done in the pool, and it was stated that in an OOA situation the donator wanted the OOA diver as close to him as possible 'as it was his [the donators] air and he wanted full control over what happened to it'. Basically the concern brought up was the OOA diver grabbing the Octo, stuffing it in their mouth and holding it there whilst bolting for the surface. It was also said that they wanted to be able to monitor the OOA diver via eye contact on the ascent.

Now, to a relatively inexperienced diver like myself this makes sense, other than there isn't enough hose length to keep a panicking diver at arms length comfortably should the situation require it.

My concern about a long hose is that suddenly you have this OOA diver up to 7 feet away and able to take what actions they like, effectively out of your control radius and easily out of eye contact.

I understand the long hose use in cave or wreck situations, but I'd like to hear the definitive argument for it's use in open water please?

Just because you have a 7' hose doesn't mean the OOA diver has to be 7' away. You can still hold onto their BC/Harness to maintain control. Generally someone who is panicked and out of gas is going to be far more concerned about getting a reg and breathing than anything else, This should give you a few seconds to get a good hold, and take control of the situation.

HTH

John

[ShinyD]

Thanks for the reply John, but I have to confess to being a little more confused now. Doesn't the fact that you have the OOA diver within arms reach mean that you have a 7' hose loose and ready to entangle arms/legs and make things worse?

I'm not trying to be provocative in the slightest here, just trying to understand something that doesn't make sense to me in the DIR 'simple and streamlined' approach. As I say, it makes perfect sense in a cave or wreck situation, but I just can't see how it can fit with the general DIR ethos in open water.

[IanDennis]

Dave

Your on a roll now aren't you

Like John said once you have donated then you don't have 7ft immediately, the balance of the hose has to be deployed from under the light, bungee, harness- where the rest of the hose is stowed and can be deployed from to deal with the emergency. With any long hose drill or depolyment then there is a natural pause whilst both donor and receiver get sorted out. This gives an opportunity to establish contact if required, which for a panicked diver may be required.

The beauty of a long hose is that you have the space to move about and deal with things such as DSMBs without being in each other's way but whilst still maintaining visual contact. The easiest way to demonstrate this is to carry out an ascent on a standard octopus then on a long hose and compare the two against one another. Most people agree that its far more comfortable on the long hose and the space to move about is a huge advantages. There are a variety of ways that a hose of this length can be stowed - the important thing being that it can be deployed easily and is not hindered by other equipment. Personally I prefer a Hogarthian wrap but other methods can be used- I find the Hog wrap easier to practise with and to enable ease of restowing.

Most technical agencies encourage donation from the mouth for long hose deployment. - not doubt somebody will be along in a minute re the disadvantages of donation from the mouth- its been done to death before

Again the best way is to try it and see what works for you, under the direction of an instructor

Regards

Ian

[deepestandy]

Originally Posted by johnkendall

Just because you have a 7' hose doesn't mean the OOA diver has to be 7' away. You can still hold onto their BC/Harness to maintain control. Generally someone who is panicked and out of gas is going to be far more concerned about getting a reg and breathing than anything else, This should give you a few seconds to get a good hold, and take control of the situation.

Also, given the fact that they have a source of gas in their mouth (your long hose), they now have plenty of room to calm down and compose themselves. I cant help but think on a shorter 'octopus' controlling buoyancy ascent rates and stops would be a bit cramped and confusing. The long hose also makes it much easier fro a OOG diver/donating diver pair to effectively deploy a DSMB.

Andy

[ShinyD]

Originally Posted by IanDennis

Dave

Your on a roll now aren't you

Heh - sorry Ian. As we approach the time to get back into the water I just want to understand the pros and cons of what we're adopting. As I've said, we will be gtting more instruciton on both long hose and twinset shutdown drills, but I like to understand as much as I can about the theory before getting to the practical aspects.

I'm not one to blindly pick up a piece of kit and use it without understanding - as far as I can - why it's better or worse than the next piece of kit. Obviously I can only ask what occurs to me, which is why the question about OPH removal didn't appear until after trying it...it just didn't occur!

Thanks all for the replies

[IanDennis]

Dave

A competant technical instructor will be able to run through this with you.

There are many different articles that have been written about the long hoses and its benefits. If you search Hogarthian on the web then you should find many different reference points as to the theory and practice of using it.

Good luck

Ian

[al kennedy]

Have a look here and here.

This is what convinced me to use a long hose. Mine is 5', plenty long enough for open-water gas sharing and a handy size for RHIB diving.