Kit questions

[String]

Rather than hijack the "fundamentals" thread in surface interval i've creamed off some comments to ask here.

Originally Posted by thehappycha]]y

We had a guy in a backplate and single wing with a single cylinder.

Although it can be done is there actually any real point in this as you'd have to redo bits of it again to "qualify" to go further?

He also had a neoprene drysuit.

Are any types of suit specifically banned? I can see why non-crushed/compressed has issues with buoyancy but what about the compressed or crushed suits?

We also had a guy with handles on his tanks and a cuff dump on his drysuit, he went away with a rec pass.

Are cuff dumps not allowed and if not, why not? I still FAR FAR more in control of my dives with a cuff dump than a shoulder. Other than potential in signalling to lose air are they allowed?

What exactly are the grades. I know of tec pass and rec pass. Is a "provisional pass" a fail - in that you need to redo parts to get a pass?
If you ended up with one of those is it a case of redoing the whole course or just pieces of it etc?

[Al_Star]

Originally Posted by String

Although it can be done is there actually any real point in this as you'd have to redo bits of it again to "qualify" to go further?

Depends what you want to do. If you just want to improve your skills then why not do the course in a single tank.

Originally Posted by String

Are any types of suit specifically banned? I can see why non-crushed/compressed has issues with buoyancy but what about the compressed or crushed suits?

Compressed or crush suits are fine, I used to dive a CF200. It's not a strict requirement to have a crushed/trilam suit. It just makes life a bit easier if you do.

Originally Posted by String

Are cuff dumps not allowed and if not, why not? I still FAR FAR more in control of my dives with a cuff dump than a shoulder. Other than potential in signalling to lose air are they allowed?

Its not banned, just shoulder dumps are usually preferred.

The kit requirments for fundamentals are:

1. Tanks/Cylinders: Students may use dual tanks/cylinders connected with a dual outlet isolator manifold, which allows for the use of two first-stages. Students may also use a single tank/cylinder with a K, H, or Y-valve.
2. Regulators: One of the second-stages must be on a 5- to 7-foot/1.5- to 2-meter hose. One of the first-stages must supply a pressure gauge and provide inflation for a dry suit (where applicable).
3. Backplate System: A rigid and flat platform, of metal construction with minimal padding, held to a diver by one continuous piece of nylon webbing. This webbing should be adjustable through the plate and should use a buckle to secure the system at the waist. A crotch strap attached to the lower end of this platform and looped through the waistband would prevent the system from riding up a diver's back. A knife should be secured to the waist on the left webbing tab. This webbing should support five D-rings; the first should be placed at the left hip, the second should be placed in line with a diver's right collarbone, the third should be placed in line with the diver's left collarbone, the fourth and fifth should be affixed to the crotch strap to use while scootering or towing/stowing gear. The harness below the diver's arms should have small restrictive bands to allow for the placement of reserve light powered by three in-line c-cell batteries (where necessary). The system should retain a minimalist approach with no unnecessary components.
4. Buoyancy Compensation Device: A diver's buoyancy compensation device should be back-mounted and minimalist in nature. It should come free of extraneous strings, tabs, or other material. There should be no restrictive bands or "bungee" of any sort affixed to the buoyancy cell. In addition, diver lift should not exceed 50lbs for a single tank and 80lbs for double tanks. Wing size and shape should be appropriate to the cylinder size(s) employed for training.
5. At least one depth-measuring device
6. At least one timekeeping device
7. Mask and fins: Mask should be low volume; fins should be rigid, non-split
8. At least one cutting device
9. Wet Notes
10. One spool with 100 feet/30 meters of line per diver
11. Exposure suit appropriate for the duration of exposure

Nothing exactly horrific!

GUE Fundamentals | Global Underwater Explorers

Originally Posted by String

What exactly are the grades. I know of tec pass and rec pass. Is a "provisional pass" a fail - in that you need to redo parts to get a pass?
If you ended up with one of those is it a case of redoing the whole course or just pieces of it etc?

Fail = Needs to re-do parts of the course. Usually down to missing dives down to say kit failure or illness. This requires you to arrange to re-do the course. This is usually because you have failed to see enough of the course for you to have learnt the skills without more instruction.

Provisional = Didn't manage to pass the relevant skills but doesn't need further formal instruction, just needs to go and practise.

Recreation pass = Passed all the skills at the recreational level.

Technical pass = Passed all the skills at a level sufficient to go and start cave/tech training. To acheive this you do need to pass in a twinset with an umbilical light.

A provisional or recreation pass can be upgraded by doing a dive with your instructor at some point beyond the course. It's usually a case of going along and just doing a dive where you can demonstrate the skills are up to scratch. I got a provisional when I did fundamentals and went away and practised.

What result you get only matters if you plan to go further forward with GUE. If you just want to learn then it is best not worry about the result and just have fun.

Cheers
Al

[Clare Gledhill]

Talk to an instructor.

You can aks why certain kit is necessary - but as I have said before, I would not be allowed to do Inspiration MOD one without a YBOD and there would be no point in my trying to do so as I would not learn what the instructor could teach me. To do GUE Fundamentals you need to try it with a single piece harness (so you can learn how it is fitted) a long hose (so you can learn to donate it) and rigid fins (so you can learn all the kicks and how to manipulate your trim).

I have kit I can lend to students who wish to come along to learn rather than make changes to their kit before they come. I attended my fundamentals course with the view that I was too independant of mind to go DIR and would just steal the ideas I liked.

In the past year I have had as students a NAUI Course Director, a trimix instructor, a handful of MOD 2 and 3 divers from various RBs and several recreational instructors with dives which can be counted in 1,000s. I've also had single tank divers with less than 20 dives who have done well as they have had less to relearn. Fundamentals is exactly that - fundamentals and open to anyone who is happy to come along and try it out for themselves.

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Clare Gledhill

I attended my fundamentals course with the view that I was too independant of mind to go DIR and would just steal the ideas I liked. .

haha, that worked out well

[Clare Gledhill]

I liked a lot

[neilh]

Originally Posted by String

Although it can be done is there actually any real point in this as you'd have to redo bits of it again to "qualify" to go further?

The difference between taking the course in a single and twins is fairly marginal. You won't be able to actually do the full valve drill (on account of being a couple of valves short ), but otherwise the academic stuff, kit config and dive skills are going to be exactly the same.

True you won't be able to get a tech pass and therefore go on to tech1 or cave1, but it's not as though you're only covering half the content of the course.

Al's posted some of the kit requirements, but I think an umbilical torch is missing from the list of kit you would have to use to get the tech rating. (As Clare said you may well be able to sort out borrowing one for a course not necessarily own your own).

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Clare Gledhill

Talk to an instructor.

I attended my fundamentals course with the view that I was too independant of mind to go DIR and would just steal the ideas I liked.

I remember the conversations on the way to and from Vobster before you did fundies.

"I don't want to be a all black gear techy diver" was one of the comments


you certainly did like lots