Learning GUE Principals without Kit Issues

[AnthonyD]

Hi All,

One of my guiding principals of diving is to avoid task loading. So if I'm playing with new kit I'm not teaching or being taught. If I'm teaching or being taught there is no new kit (unless the teaching bit is new equipment in itself).

My biggest issue with GUE courses (as I understand them) is that fundamentally you have to do the course with wings & backplate ... I've tried several wings, hated the experience and ended up fighting with them all, and vowing never to get rid of my trusty old Buddy BCD on my single 12l [I do approx 70-80 dives a year UK & overseas, max 30m ish, no deco, very non-technical].

I have enquired about GUE courses previously 'cos I'm positive there will aspects of the training and diving techniques that I can use. I am not interested in receiving any certification whatsoever, but this apparent fixation on equipment is a total turn off as far as I am concerned. Trying to figure out how to drive a new piece of equipment whilst trying to implement new techniques does not sound that great, particularly when all my previous experiences with wings have left a lasting negative impression.

I can see the impact of standard equipment on some of the objectives of GUE (e.g. safety proceedures), but I would hope that I could pick up the non-equipment issues ... and I'm eager to learn alternatives and find those things that I can incorporate into my regular process.

Thoughts?

[DevonDiver]

I won't speak authoritatively, as I'm not a DIR qualified diver - but I'm guessing that one of the benefits of the Fundies course would be that you would learn how to dive with a wing and not be 'fighting with it'?

[GLOC]

GUE training is about the whole thing, not just the kit. I am at work so can't type a comprehensive reply here (will do that when I get back tonight if someone already hasn't done so already) but you cannot apply all of the principles if you don't have the equipment.

Stowing and deplying a long hose in a way which will not snag is much more difficult in a BCD.
Stowing lights is much more difficult in a BCD
Holding horiztonal trim is much more difficult in a BCD.

I was spoiled, I only dived a BCD for 10-20 dives and then I moved over to a wing and BP so did not have the 'unlearning' to do. I have also met quite a few people who, once they have tried a wing and BP, sell their BC because a wing feels so much cleaner.

DevonDiver is right, Fundies teaches you how to dive a wing, BP, light, fin kick properly (for the environment) etc.. If you can't learn it your instructor isn't doing a very good job!!


Anyway, have to shoot...

[James The Badger]

Why come to the discover DIR weekend at Stoney next month, try a properly fitted wing and BP on and see how it feels. I am sure Mal can PM you the details or see his page.
I lent my twins and wing to trainee in the pool a few weeks ago and it took him about half an hour to get really comfy, then... hey presto.
Try not to get to hung up on the equipment thing, its just a platform to work with. I nearly binned mine at first, and realised it was just all set up wrong.

[nickb]

I moved from a BCD with single & pony to a backplate/wing & twinset without any issues. I took to the wing immediately. In fact I wouldn't contemplate diving with a BCD now unless there really was no alternative.

It's my guess that if you signed up for a DIR-F course, your instructor could sort out any issues you might have with a wing in no time at all.

If you sign up for any DIR stuff, you pretty much have to go with the kit they specify. I can't see anything wrong with that. If you object, there's plenty of other agencies you can take your business to.

[scuba g]

Im not a DIR/GUE'er but dive a wing, did so after my OW and loved the freedom, I personal prefer them and students who try mine or another divers usually prefer them, but like all things, its personal choose, I can see the view of doing a GUE course means doing it with the equipment specified, otherwise it would be GUE, I would say to try the course in the DIR gear, at most you will finally know if the wing issue was something you did and that can be corrected and get to have an insight. Im planning to do the Fundie course and will, for the course anyway, use whats adviced as it would seem doing it and using your own gear goes against the point of learnign what is GUE. If I teach and advice a student to use certain gear, and they are dont want to, even though its going to help, then I wouldnt be interested in teaching them, go in with the open mind and afterwards then do what you feel is best.

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by AnthonyD

Hi All,

One of my guiding principals of diving is to avoid task loading. So if I'm playing with new kit I'm not teaching or being taught. If I'm teaching or being taught there is no new kit (unless the teaching bit is new equipment in itself).

My biggest issue with GUE courses (as I understand them) is that fundamentally you have to do the course with wings & backplate ... I've tried several wings, hated the experience and ended up fighting with them all, and vowing never to get rid of my trusty old Buddy BCD on my single 12l [I do approx 70-80 dives a year UK & overseas, max 30m ish, no deco, very non-technical].

I have enquired about GUE courses previously 'cos I'm positive there will aspects of the training and diving techniques that I can use. I am not interested in receiving any certification whatsoever, but this apparent fixation on equipment is a total turn off as far as I am concerned. Trying to figure out how to drive a new piece of equipment whilst trying to implement new techniques does not sound that great, particularly when all my previous experiences with wings have left a lasting negative impression.

I can see the impact of standard equipment on some of the objectives of GUE (e.g. safety proceedures), but I would hope that I could pick up the non-equipment issues ... and I'm eager to learn alternatives and find those things that I can incorporate into my regular process.

Thoughts?

No offense M8 but posts like this make me screeeeeeeem and bite the edge of the table


There really is no middle ground here, your either DIR or your not. If your not then there is nothing GUE have to offer that will be of any use at all.

All the points in the arena "non equipment issues" are all covered by pretty much all the other training agencies. The only thing that may or may not interest you is ratio deco which is not commonly taught by other agencies but is freely available on the Internet if you wish to pursue it.

There is a core element to GUE/DIR and that is standard equipment and standard procedures. Every single GUE diver running the same rig and singing off the same song sheet in all aspects of the dive. This is its great strength.

If you are not following their standard rig and not diving only with buddies who also follow their standard rig then your not benefiting from the DIR methodology and would be advise to adopt a different strategy for dives.

ATB

Mark

[IanDennis]

If your looking to adopt the procedures of GUE or any other technical organisation then you may need to rethink your equipment configuration. Horizontal trim in a BC is actually not that difficult- in something like the buddy explorer then it’s quite easy but it does take practice.

Trying to use a long hose via a hogarthian wrap or find a position for an umbilical torch when using a BC illustrates it problems and shortcomings. It’s not an ideal solution and whilst possible it creates issues that may prevent divers learning the correct technique.

Whilst some technical agencies will have some latitude in the equipment configuration- adopting a “run what your bring” strategy, the instructor has to have the ability to work around these different equipment configurations and help the student develop a configuration that suits their own style yet still ensures that safety is not compromised. The diver essentially must be able to function as a team member and complete the essential basic skills such as mask clearing, reg removal and replacement, long hose use and deployment, trim and buoyancy control,dsmb deployment, valve drills, awareness development and propulsion techniques. Any technical instructor should be able to demonstrate how to use a wing so that you’re not “fighting against it”.

GUE courses seek to develop students towards a standardised equipment configuration. As had been said before fundies will not take your kit apart but it will encourage the diver to look at their configuration and seek to optimise it for their future diving needs. If you go on with further training then the configuration acts as a basic foundation for developing further skills.

I work with students in a variety of equipment, some based upon the GUE principals of equipment configuration and some very much “run what you bring”. On a recent course I taught two people were in wings/backplates and one in a BCD fitted with twins. All successfully completed the course and all the required skills.

As divers progress towards more technical training then the kit configuration inevitably becomes very similar. OW divers have many different styles of equipment, trimix/cave divers tend to have much less diversity.

Whichever course you elect to follow the majority of technical agencies will set out requirements for entry for the course which will include wings, backplates, regulator configuration etc. In this GUE is no different to IANTD or TDI, GUE just sets out to do from fundies level and build skills upon a standard equipment foundation.

If you have the opportunity to try different configurations either via speaking to any technical instructor or attending one of the GUE experience days then this would give you an insight into how the equipment works and how the principals interlock together.

This would be a far better solution then trying to learn equipment configuration over the internet.

Good luck

Ian

[James The Badger]

Originally Posted by IanDennis

This would be a far better solution then trying to learn equipment configuration over the internet.

And so say all of us! well put Ian

[Al_Star]

Originally Posted by IanDennis

This would be a far better solution then trying to learn equipment configuration over the internet.

Good luck

Ian

Steady now Ian - next you'll be saying I can't learn to dive off the internet