Dry Gloves - Yes or No

[And]

Hi

Recently on some of the other lists I visit there have been some mention of drygloves. Mainly this has just been noise around the Xscooter thing but there are a couple of things which have raised a question in my tiny little mind

The recent BAUE incident we discussed involves a rapid ascent and having to solve issues whilst ascending. If one had drygloves on then I imagine the incident would be a lot harder to resolve. They will expand as you ascend. Do you guys agree or not?

The other thing is that the EKPP do their dives with wetgloves. Does anyone know what type of gloves they use and more importantly, why they don't use drygloves considering they are in cold water for many hours at a time?

Andy

[Ian@1904]

I have some basic dry gloves and for me the work well. I could not dive at this time of year with my usual 3mm gloves. My hands really feel the cold.

There is some lost dexterity, but I am able to deply an smb, play with releases, shutdown valves etc. There is not usually air in my bcd during a dive so no buttons to press here. Pressing the shoulder dump on my drysuit is easy to do.

The challenge for me is removing the gloves after a dive-last time I inserted a screwdriver inside the glove to prise my hand out.

The gloves compress under water. I have no link between the gas in my drysuit and the gloves. So during an ascent the gloves are expanding back to their original size, no balloon effects

[e-aquanauts]

I've had the DUI ring system fitted to my TLS 350, when in highsprings I use latex seals (as sold at Extreme Exposure) currently I have the dry gloves fitted. I don't have a problem with air expansion in the gloves, as long as they aren't the highest point air won't migrate and I don't find any loss of dexterity even if they are full of air, like all good things, teardrop clips and practise resolved this.

The only problem I have is that the dry gloves are effectly fitted to the suit, this includes when I kit up/de kit, then they are a pain, and I know that a failure in the glove/ring system results in a suit flood.

AndyK had a ring system fitted to his DUI that he was using at the weekend, that looked like a better solution to me, I don't remember if it had a latex seal inside to protect against suit flood or not.... no doubt he'll be along shortly.

/F

[Mark]

I have had a couple of problems with my dry gloves but that was down to inexperience with them at the time. The first time I used them I forgot to use any tubing for equalisation and my hands got rather squeezed. Another time I was using tubing but it was too short and I managed to push it under the internal wrist seal while on the bottom/gas switching. This lead to a rather fat and useless balloon hand by the time I was at 6m. I'm surprised the glove stayed on.

I don't have problems with them any more.

I don't think drygloves would have made a great deal of difference with the BAUE incident.

PS. Mine are the Typhoon ones (same as AK) and I have internal seals (must have!)

[Helen F H]

Does anyone know if they do dry gloves really small? (sorry for the hijack)

[RichW]

I use the SciTech ring system. This has an integral wrist seal. The glove has a latex seal that you stretch over the top of the ring. This works really well, but getting in and out of the harness does seem to wear the glove seals somewhat.

As far as equalising goes, I used to put a liner glove on before donning the suit, and it stayed under the wrist seal. The idea was that if I flooded a glove, I could just remove it and pull the liner glove out. Nice idea. Didn't work. In it's defence, it took a good half an hour before I could feel water was sloshing around inside the suit as the water wicked its way along the liner glove.

I tried tubing, but it was too uncomfortable. I now use 6 inches of 2mm bungee, placed into a loop. Flood the glove and you can just pull the bungee through to seal the suit.

As to whether they're DIR or not, I don't know. I guess this is one of the things that some of us are trying to perfect at the moment. A good fitting and equalised glove shouldn't cause you any loss of dexterity. I do find working with thin line and no visibility almost impossible, as I can't feel it between my fingers. Perhaps a reason why the ekpp don't use them? I'd certainly need persuading before I used them in a cave.

Rich

[And]

Originally Posted by Mark

Another time I was using tubing but it was too short and I managed to push it under the internal wrist seal while on the bottom/gas switching. This lead to a rather fat and useless balloon hand by the time I was at 6m. I'm surprised the glove stayed on.

I don't have problems with them any more.

I don't think drygloves would have made a great deal of difference with the BAUE incident.

Thats what I'm talking about. The guy had a problem at 21 mtrs after his switch and was heading up fast. Dry gloves would have expanded and become useless unless you took the extra time in equalising them and prevent him from arresting the ascent, or not

Andy

[Chris B]

Alternatives
I have used three-finger gloves, 5mm gloves and dry gloves extensively; as you know I now use dry gloves all the time and am confident that I can deal with anything equally as well as if I was wearing 5mm glove.

Loss of dexterity
In my opinion, dexterity is a bit of a red-herring. If you are not getting cold hands, then stick with wet gloves, you will have a tad more dexterity. If you are getting cold hands (usually the reason people are considering dry-gloves) then dry gloves will likely provide better dexterity V wet gloves after say 10mins in water.

Line use
It is true that you cannot feel cave-line easily (you can feel it) through dry gloves….but I can’t feel it through cold fingers and 5mm of neoprene either. I would have to have literally 0 viz not to be able lay line (I can still follow it out using line holding protocol) in which case, why am I going in?

Equalisation
I use a couple of tiny tubes to equalise that cannot be felt, these could either be removed if I holed the glove badly or I could just put up with the small ingress of water.

Out of control expansion
Believe me, you would have to travel fast for this not to be able to keep up with the expansion (IE you've already lost it) Even in this extreme scenario, imagine your hand inside a balloon, If you push your hand/fingers to the outside (and remember this is glove shaped) your contact points will remain the same. The most inconinient part of the glove is actually the plastic ring itself

The value of warmth?
I actually consider them a safety feature. Getting cold is dangerous and having dry hands (more importantly wrists) makes a big difference to temperature drop. There are some sizable veins running through your wrists that by their nature convey a lot of heat around your body. Contact with water will wick heat quite effectively.

Personal experiences
I was very lucky in that I fitted mine and they worked from day one, some have not been so fortunate however I believe that like P-valves (!) I would persevere and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Other points
As an aside and to answer a couple of other questions. Yes, you can get V small ones, these are available at Capernwray for trial. I have fitted two seals (just one over the other) onto my suit which allows me to easily take them on and off for use without in the summer.

Evaluation
They are just another tool to be used when the temperature dictates. Ultimately, I would suggest the best way for you to asses is to try them yourself and commit to doing it for a period of time (not giving in at the first problem)

my four pence worth.

Chris B

[Dizzydiver]

Thanks for posting this one up. I have been trying to decide on this issue myself. Its murder for me trying to dive in Italy right now as the lakes are so cold and I'd been toying with the idea of dry gloves. This advice has swayed my thinking onto the "Go try 'em" route.

Cheers for that guys, 'specially to And for putting the questions forward in the first place.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by And

Thats what I'm talking about. The guy had a problem at 21 mtrs after his switch and was heading up fast. Dry gloves would have expanded and become useless unless you took the extra time in equalising them and prevent him from arresting the ascent, or not

Andy

Hi I had a bit of a runaway when my inflator packed up in Stoney but the drygloves didn't cause any added problems.