My first Dive with DIR Divers

[Little Pete]

You make a very good point Andy.

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by And

Do me a favour. Email Andy and Rich telling them what you've been doing and ask them if they recommend you carry on doing these types of 'training' dives. I bet I know what they will say.

Andy

Andy.

Just one thing and not starting to ruck, but what has worried me for a while and been asked by many is the ripe old question .

What if i did one of these training type dives with Al & Gledders and something went wrong and a insurance claim was needed ...... which one gets the letter ?

As you lot dive in 3's , someome must be the LEADER and take the shit when it hits the fan.

To me , reading Garf's report seems more like " I'm a better diver than you and i'm gonna prove it by adding in a few surprises " .. recipe for a dive report to BSAC INCIDENTS ..

[wilbo]

Not hijacking the thread: Rob, Neil, Gareth and myself are at the same stage as Garf.

When we go diving and Clare has been in the water with us, there is no instruction. we are diving as a group. End of. There is no instruction, as Clare is not an instructor. Yes she has given some tips on how to better place kit or ourselves in the water, but its not instruction.
I have shown the other guys I dive with how to do stuff and in turn I have learnt from them. Thats not instruction.

its how Clare's and Al's help is percieved by people.

[Janos]

Well, once again I'm going to break with internet tradition and say that I wasn't at Vobster so I can't really comment.

But I'll go back into internet tradition and give my 2p: Which is that there is definitely a difference between instructing and practicing skills. If the purpose of the session is to practice and improve things that people already know how to do, then that's not a problem.

In my club we try and encourage everyone to go on a shallow quarry dive at the start of the season and practice air sharing, mask removal etc. I don't think that an instructor has to be present for this (although I could be wrong) but I think that practicing skills should be encouraged.

Janos

[Al_Star]

I believe this is people making mountains out of molehills.

I spent most of my day just diving with Sterny. Sterny has done fundamentals and wanted to practise some of his drills. We both did an s-drill, we both did a valve drill, we swam round and had a good tour of the quarry. When we did an ascent I asked Sterny to bag off.

Now bollox is that instruction! I went for a dive and we had fun and did a couple of drills so he could get some practise.

For the dive I did with Garf, Ahar, Sterny and Clare - I saw them do a valve drill. They watched me do a valve drill. I saw them ascend to the surface (bit quicker than I'd have planned). I saw them do an s-drill and then try and ascend on a long hose.

These guys are all advanced nitrox and deco procedures trained. All 3 have done all of this on TDI courses and are qualified technical divers. Myself and Clare went for a dive and were able to give them a couple of suggestions.

If you want to call that instruction and kick up a fuss then you are reading FAR more into it than happened.

In no way am I instructing anyone in anything.

Al

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by wilbo

When we go diving and Clare has been in the water with us, there is no instruction. we are diving as a group. End of. There is no instruction, as Clare is not an instructor. Yes she has given some tips on how to better place kit or ourselves in the water, but its not instruction.
I have shown the other guys I dive with how to do stuff and in turn I have learnt from them. Thats not instruction.

its how Clare's and Al's help is percieved by people.

Hi Mate,

TBH in this litigious world we live in today any act is open to scrutiny in the event of an incident and reading Garf's report AFAIC if an incident had occured it would be a minefield for all concerned with no winners but the lawyers.

Unfortunately any kind of "help" could be construed as "instruction" by the back door and that is a whole new ball game as I have experienced with an instructor in my club who had 3 years of hell until the case was withdrawn.

I do appreciate that GUE practice OOG situations often and that is a good thing IMO but in the first instances should be done via an instructor and I say that not questioning anyones ability, but only to cover yourselves.

Safe diving,
Steve

[And]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

If you want to call that instruction and kick up a fuss then you are reading FAR more into it than happened.

In no way am I instructing anyone in anything.

Al

The reason I am kicking up a fuss Al is because there are people looking at this and thinking that DIR is some strange army boot camp where you can go along for a first dive and have the shit kicked out of you until you say DIR is the only way. I do not endorse this view and will not be tarred with that brush.

Read the title of the thread 'My first dive with...' and then read the report. Do you really think that ripping someones kit apart, multiple valve drills, sdrills, and 'hitting' people with OOG is what you do when diving with someone for the first time, no matter what pretty pictures they have on their c-cards?

Andy

[Garf]

Please do not confuse an enthusiastic posting with innapropriate action on anyone's part. Our kit was adjusted at our own request. Drills were done at our own request. clare and al were in the water with us at our own request.

this was not a boot camp, it was a group of divers, two of whom happened to have knowledge to share with willing colleagues.

Am I not to post on the boards now when I go divintg with JAG and talk to him about some new deco theory I've read somewhere. Or perhaps I should not talk about having bacon sandwiches with J.W in Guildy as I might buy them and they might stick in his throat.

whom I choose to dive with is my business. Whom I choose to listen to is my business. Any changes I make to my diving Rig are my business. Any changes I make to my diving practices are my business. Are you seeing a pattern here.

This was an enthusiastic post about a great day's diving with some knowledgeble colleagues. If you don't want to read about it, there are plenty of other threads. there is far too much analysis happening on this board at the moment. we went diving, and two of the divers were GUE trained. We asked them to show us how to configure our kit a-la-DIR. we asked them to throw some drills our way. Whoopee-fukkin-do. I throw drills at JAG all the time. sometimes, he tells me about something new he has learned. Rarely do we say you'll have to wait until you are properly TDI trained before you do "X", as we both have the bloody common sense to understand our life is in our own hands and not do anything stupid.

What a load of shite. A perfectly good day was had by all until we reached YD. Litigation, bolox. I wasn't under instruction, I hadn't signed any waivers, I wasn't being hand-held. I am responsible for my own safety, thanks very much.

why would I want to email Rich or Andy? What I do with my diving is my business, not GUE's. IF I make the course harder for myself, well that's my own fault isn't it. And if I make it easier, that's my call too.

This is a public notice board, not a board of enquiry, or at least I think it was started with that intention. Sometimes I wonder if that has been forgotten.

[Woz]

Good old YD and it's ability to turn a decent, interesting post into a rotten vegetable throwing "Garf in the stocks" spectacle.

Top post, Garf. I go and practice stuff all the time on pretty much every dive. I even ask other people how to show me new stuff. It's all part of diving and the continual learning process that the sport is.

[And]

Originally Posted by Garf

This is a public notice board, not a board of enquiry, or at least I think it was started with that intention. Sometimes I wonder if that has been forgotten.

[shrugs] It was my opinion, as I stated and you can take it however you want. Some peeps chose to respond. I chose to discuss. There is no board of enquiry, just a discussion. I am absolutely sure you agreed and even asked for the dives to go the way they did. I do not want to fall out with anyone, but sometimes things need to be said. I think it should be left for the course. Obviously you and others don't.

If you wish I can just delete all the discussion and we can get back to all the group hugging about how fantastic we all are.

Andy