Fundies 27 Feb 06 Vobster, The Devil rides in

[Janos]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

There is a work in progress thing going on right now to attempt a set of standard procedures for CCR diving and I will be doing my best to be part of it.

I am very interested in this, if perhaps not up to the grade just yet. For deep diving I think team skills are very important, especially when considering bailout. I do think that DIR have it right with their emphasis on team awareness, and it is something I would like to see when I move on to deeper diving on the CCR.

Fancy setting up an agency?

Janos

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Janos

Fancy setting up an agency?

Janos

Well Id like to keep DIM diving (doing it marks way) for my OC stuff
so how about CCRAP diving

Closed Circuit Re breather Advanced Practices

We could have Goldie looking Chains "Guns don't kill people CCRAP ers do" as out theme song.

ATB

Mark Chase

[nickb]

A good, honest critique Mark. I confess, like Lou, I'm a bit puzzled now about the 'turn-up as a blank canvas' approach.

A few of us are down for this in May and, aside from getting in the water a bit more often than I normally want to early in the season, I wasn't planning to practise all these drills, expecting to be taught to 'Do it Right' on the course. I'll have to reconsider.

It was good to meet you and the others on Sunday, it's a shame that it was under such stressful circumstances. Shit, it was bad enough getting into the water at 5/6 degrees celsius with no pressure on.

[SoB]

Reading through all of this and thinking back to when I took the DIR-F course I think you have to take the blank-canvas approach. Yes there could be many things to practice but without an Instructor there how certain are you that you are that what you are practicing is the right thing or that you are doing it properly. At that point (IMO) you would be better off waiting until the course.

With equipment, until you have done the course, why would you change any of your kit until you know that the style of diving suits you (or the other way around) and that you want to invest time and possibly money in changing from a style that (probably) works very for you now.

Finally the issue of assessment/course/instruction. The Instructor is introducing new procedures to everyone and the constant assessment appears to me to be two-fold. First and foremost it is to permit the instructor to advise and correct the student as they are trying out the new skills/procedures so that as they progress through the days/dives of the course they do, indeed, progress in the quality and speed of same. This is seen again, out of the water, with the class reviews of the video footage. Secondly they allow the instructor to provide honest and accurate assessment of the students ability at the end of the course and allows them to no be swayed by a problem (such as Mark had) on a single dive at the end of the course.

Whilst it is only my own opinion I would carry on to say that the course should not be seen or approached as a pass/fail and GUE do not approach it that way. Lots of new things are being introduced to try and ensure that people are at the same level when the attempt either Tech or Cave and to approach it with a mentality of "I must pass or I have failed" misses the point of not only GUE but specifically the Fundamentals course.

okay - flame-proof clothing on!

[Madfish]

and a great report - I owe you a green!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mark Chase again.

I will keep it safe for you..

Dianne

[Clare Gledhill]

Originally Posted by nickb

A good, honest critique Mark. I confess, like Lou, I'm a bit puzzled now about the 'turn-up as a blank canvas' approach.

A few of us are down for this in May and, aside from getting in the water a bit more often than I normally want to early in the season, I wasn't planning to practise all these drills, expecting to be taught to 'Do it Right' on the course. I'll have to reconsider.

Then there is a lot of reconsideration going on - from both angles.

When I put my name down to do DIR F, I was already diving with DIR divers and thus learning the drills from them. We all learn from our own experiences so my "experience" was that one "trained'" for fundies.

When I got to the course I did find that I had been taught one small element of one of the drills incorrectly but that was put right by Rich within minutes.

I was chuffed to pass and felt that the preparation I had done beforehand had helped me immensly. This seriously influenced me when responding to requests to go dive with others before their courses.

Hmmm....

Last weekend I was able to sit in on a DIR F. And have had a bloody hard rethink ever since.

I was so preoccupied on my course with the idea of 'demonstrating what I had learned' that I missed out on some of the finer points of the learning experience itself - which is a shame.

Last weekend, without the self imposed stress of being a student, I saw that there is little point in trying to give someone what can only be a pale imitation of the course in advance.

There is enough time on a DIR F to learn the Standard skills and reach the standard required. The fact that all dives are assessed does not mean that a mistake on day 1 will mean a provisional or a fail on day 2 -improved understanding, enhanced skills as the dives progress will demonstrate competance.

So with regard to preparation - I've changed my mind (women's perogative don't you know).

I now think that one should prepare for DIR F like one should prepare for any other course - and no more. Get weighting right, get used to any new kit, get comfortable in the water so that you can keep still when you need to. Learn to read your buoyancy in the shallows, especially when doing any skills like mask removal. If you can get this basic level of comfort sorted then you will maximise your ability to take on board the detailed instruction that you can get on the course. In this way DIR F is no different to any other agencies course - get wet, get comfortable and then use the instructor time you have paid for to learn.

If in order to do that you feel you want to dive with GUE divers, then there are many who will be happy to go for a dive (some of us seem to live in the water permanently). And if you go and get a provisional pass on DIR F, there will be loads of divers all around the country who will be happy to do some diving and help you get up to standard.

My 2p worth (which like all advice is worth exactly what you pay for it )

[The Doctor]

W

[neilh]

Well done Mark, Ian and the rest. It's one thing to put yourself forward for the course but another thing entirely to be so open and honest in public afterwards. Well in guys.

Originally Posted by Gledders

I now think that one should prepare for DIR F like one should prepare for any other course - and no more. Get weighting right, get used to any new kit, get comfortable in the water so that you can keep still when you need to.

I'd support this - for me the key was not to get hung up on "getting a pass". I don't know if it made a difference fully expecting to have to go away and practice, I just didn't want to be so bad I'd fail!

[And]

Originally Posted by Gledders

I now think that one should prepare for DIR F like one should prepare for any other course - and no more. Get weighting right, get used to any new kit, get comfortable in the water so that you can keep still when you need to. Learn to read your buoyancy in the shallows, especially when doing any skills like mask removal. If you can get this basic level of comfort sorted then you will maximise your ability to take on board the detailed instruction that you can get on the course. In this way DIR F is no different to any other agencies course - get wet, get comfortable and then use the instructor time you have paid for to learn.

Exactly right.

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by Gledders

Last weekend, without the self imposed stress of being a student, I saw that there is little point in trying to give someone what can only be a pale imitation of the course in advance.

There is enough time on a DIR F to learn the Standard skills and reach the standard required. The fact that all dives are assessed does not mean that a mistake on day 1 will mean a provisional or a fail on day 2 -improved understanding, enhanced skills as the dives progress will demonstrate competance.

So with regard to preparation - I've changed my mind (women's perogative don't you know).

I now think that one should prepare for DIR F like one should prepare for any other course - and no more. Get weighting right, get used to any new kit, get comfortable in the water so that you can keep still when you need to. Learn to read your buoyancy in the shallows, especially when doing any skills like mask removal. If you can get this basic level of comfort sorted then you will maximise your ability to take on board the detailed instruction that you can get on the course. In this way DIR F is no different to any other agencies course - get wet, get comfortable and then use the instructor time you have paid for to learn.

If in order to do that you feel you want to dive with GUE divers, then there are many who will be happy to go for a dive (some of us seem to live in the water permanently). And if you go and get a provisional pass on DIR F, there will be loads of divers all around the country who will be happy to do some diving and help you get up to standard.

My 2p worth (which like all advice is worth exactly what you pay for it )

Bloody hell! Now there's a first - we agree on something!

Seriously, though, Clare - very well said and I admire you for having the kahunas (I always wondered about that p-valve in your new suit!) to change your mind on something that I know you believed strongly in.

As I've said on many occasions in the past, I honestly think that many DIR-F candidates get too preoccupied with cracking skills *before* taking the DIR-F course when what they should be concentrating on is nailing the basics - that is, trim, bouyancy control and generally increasing their in-water comfort level. If you get these all-important core elements off to a tee (ie. you can hold you position in the water with minimal thought and not lose it when you get task-loaded) then you've got a solid foundation on which to build the skills that RichW and AK will teach you.

In effect, this is what you did when you passed your DIR-F - after a shakey start, you got yourself in the water and dived, dived and dived some more until core skills such as bouyancy control and good trim became second nature (ie. automatic responses). It's these *solid foundations* that make DIR-F that bit easier to get through - not the continual practicing of skills. Whats that old saying about building a castle on solid foundations and not on a sandy beach? Mixing my metaphors? Surely not...

Ultimately, exposure to DIR divers who have got through Cave-1 and Tech-1 and above is good for DIR-F candidates as subtle feedback like kit tweaks and advice on how to improve trim etc reaps dividends. But as you've kinda pointed out yourself - leave the skills to the GUE instructors...

Green incoming!