Fundies 27 Feb 06 Vobster, The Devil rides in

[divingniknaks]

Just a thought here.
I know and accept why DIR-F is now a Pass / Prov/ Fail course, but a lot of the angst would be removed if it went back to being a workshop.
At that point people would IMHO be more prepared to "turn up" and "learn", without the perceived risk of "failure or Provisional".
That doesn't get round the fact that, the reasoning was people turning up ill prepared for T1 or C1.
Maybe a move back to a workshop, but an "evaluation" put into T1 and C1 might work ?
My 2p (as Clare says, it's worth what you pay for it)

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by divingniknaks

Just a thought here.

I know and accept why DIR-F is now a Pass / Fail course, but a lot of the angst would be removed if it went back to being a workshop.

At that point people would IMHO be more prepared to "turn up" and "learn", without the perceived risk of "failure or Provisional".

That doesn't get round the fact that, the reasoning was people turning up ill prepared for T1 or C1.

Maybe a move back to a workshop, but an "evaluation" put into T1 and C1 might work ?

My 2p (as Clare says, it's worth what you pay for it)

Yeah, you raise a very valid point but the problem is that I do honestly think that a lot of the pressure of passing DIR-F is put upon the candidates by the candidates themselves. If they were to approach the course with the right attitude - that is, turn up and learn as much as you can rather than getting preoccupied with getting a 'pass' - I honestly think that many would get a lot more out of it.

The other problem is one of marketing. The fact is, students like to get plastic cards out of the courses they've paid for. Just like at the PADI system - it practically invented the card collecting diver mentality! GUE know all too well that unless a customer feels like they get something at the end of it, many will be less likely to sign up. I know that may not sound particularly 'DIR' but let's be realistic here - GUE isn't just about turning out 'sorted' divers... they wanna make money too! (shock! horror!).

The other issue is that GUE needs to ensure that students who are accepted onto a Tech-1 or Cave-1 course have achieved at least a basic level of in-water competency *before* they turn up for their first day of tech or cave training. Having a skills eval on the first day (which, to be honest, all course have already) is ok but it does kinda cause proceedings to grind to a halt if the student isn't up to scratch. A certain level of 'rustiness' is easy to fix but being a complete numpty in the water isn't a good way to start a Tech-1 course...

[Janos]

I've forgotten which fora I've posted this on now. (Too many for my poor brain) but I've been saying for a while now that if I were King of DIR then I would make fundies into a two day course which is then repeated a few weeks or months later. It would be exactly the same - same structure - same dives - same skills - except this time it would be the exam.
Janos
EDIT: Ah, cobblers. It was YD where I posted this. Actually it was in this thread....

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Janos

I've forgotten which fora I've posted this on now. (Too many for my poor brain) but I've been saying for a while now that if I were King of DIR then I would make fundies into a two day course which is then repeated a few weeks or months later. It would be exactly the same - same structure - same dives - same skills - except this time it would be the exam.
Janos
EDIT: Ah, cobblers. It was YD where I posted this. Actually it was in this thread....

Wasn't this approach what Andrew G was campaigning for at one point? I guess that means it won't happen now.

Mal

[Janos]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Wasn't this approach what Andrew G was campaigning for at one point? I guess that means it won't happen now.
Mal

Bloody politics. It happens everywhere.

BSAC do it for a couple of their instructor courses and I like it as it means that you can make a complete tit of yourself asking stupid questions and it doesn't matter [1]. I was talking with someone about this the other day, and if you are on an event that is sort-of assessed, then you might think: "Hmmm. My backkick on that dive was ok, but I'd really like to give it another go..." On a course you might actually say this, but on an exam no.

And no matter what the instructor says there's always going to be self-imposed pressure on an exam.

Just my 2p. Probably talking rubbish as usual. I'm off to bed now in a slightly widdled state as we exchanged house stuff today after nine (9) months. Phew. Right. Off to pack the breather away safely from the brutal removal men.

Janos

[1] - Unless you do them back to back, which I did, and wouldn't recommend.

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Janos

I've forgotten which fora I've posted this on now. (Too many for my poor brain) but I've been saying for a while now that if I were King of DIR then I would make fundies into a two day course which is then repeated a few weeks or months later. It would be exactly the same - same structure - same dives - same skills - except this time it would be the exam.
Janos
EDIT: Ah, cobblers. It was YD where I posted this. Actually it was in this thread....

Personally i think thats pretty much what it is now. You do the w/end and if you don't manage to get a lid on the skills straight away your offered the chance of a reassessment dive. If you do then you don't have to bother. That seems fine to me.

If its important to you to pass first go then I would recommend pre practice if you can sort out a mentor. If not then go and get shown the skills on the course and then practice in your own time and do the resit. Unless you have a mentor who happens to be a good teacher for the actual DIR skills its pointless trying to figure them out on your own. You can get still get a handle on trim and buoyancy control in the 6m zone before the course and frankly thats a must do.

There are some issues I have with the course but the pass fail provisional thing isn't one of them.


ATB

Mark Chase

[Janos]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Personally i think thats pretty much what it is now. You do the w/end and if you don't manage to get a lid on the skills straight away your offered the chance of a reassessment dive. If you do then you don't have to bother. That seems fine to me.

If its important to you to pass first go then I would recommend pre practice if you can sort out a mentor. If not then go and get shown the skills on the course and then practice in your own time and do the resit. Unless you have a mentor who happens to be a good teacher for the actual DIR skills its pointless trying to figure them out on your own. You can get still get a handle on trim and buoyancy control in the 6m zone before the course and frankly thats a must do.

There are some issues I have with the course but the pass fail provisional thing isn't one of them.

I see what you're saying. However I think that the current system still puts a lot of pressure on people to "pass" first time. True, this pressure is largely self imposed. If the most you could hope for was a provisional and everyone did the assessment dive then I think that would be a bit better.

That said, I don't want to sound too negative, and I know I often do. DIR-F is a pretty good course - one of the best out there from any agency - and I'm just making suggestions as to how I would make it that little bit better. Speaking from my own experiences the courses where I have learnt the most (and my day with Mark Powell springs to mind, as well as my BSAC IFC) have been the ones where there has been no formal assessment whatsoever, just honest feedback at the end of the day.

Janos