Clipping off primary reg

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Garf

Not quite with you. I'm afraid Lou. Give me the scenario you have in mind.

The s-drill then.

I assume, and please do correct me if I am wrong (like you wouldn't ) that in a pair of two, one person would do the drill, which involves the primary reg clipped off for a period of time, and one person watching.

What do you do if the "watcher" goes OOG whilst the donor's reg is clipped off?

Alternatively, on stages. I can see what would be done, as Digs suggest, the stage reg is donated fromthe mouth and the donor goes onto the necklaced back-up, but i then assume some juggling has to be done to switch the OOG diver tot he long hose, whilst the donor goes back on the stage? Is that correct? If so, you have, for a short period of time, someone very close to you on a stage hose, and a bit more work to do than if the long hose reg was somehow more available, on a breakaway, perhaps?

I am not trying to tear apart any practises here, just figure them out. I have the clip, as I said, but because I don't see the benefit underwater I only use it to keep the reg tidy and safe out of the water.

[Darren A]

Cheers Woz. Nice piccie . I understand the o ring thing now.

[Woz]

Originally Posted by Darren A

Cheers Woz. Nice piccie . I understand the o ring thing now.

Photo courtest of Bantam who is coming to play down in Nottingham later this week and then for some reason not yet discovered wants to dive Stoney. I am trying to come up with a good reason but failing dismally so may have to pay some sort of penalty. Mind you, Rodette our 2 ft high steel statue needs bolting in somewhere so that might just be the day to do it. If you see a bloke wandering round with a side slung 10 with an air drill and a hammer then come and say hello.

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Lou

The s-drill then.

I assume, and please do correct me if I am wrong (like you wouldn't ) that in a pair of two, one person would do the drill, which involves the primary reg clipped off for a period of time, and one person watching.

What do you do if the "watcher" goes OOG whilst the donor's reg is clipped off?

in your scenario I've donated to a person, and now I run out of gas. Which means they run out of gas too. Nice

This is just another reason for the ideal dive team being three. The third person is watching all of this, and is now in a position to donate to me, whilst the person I donated to goes to their necklaced backup, unclips their primary and then goes back to their primary.

If you are diving as a two then there are fewer options. Personally, I'd signal OOA and le tthe other person unclip and donate their primary. this takes a fraction of a second when the muscle memory is there. At the same time the other person goes to their becklaced backup.

Originally Posted by Lou

Alternatively, on stages. I can see what would be done, as Digs suggest, the stage reg is donated fromthe mouth and the donor goes onto the necklaced back-up, but i then assume some juggling has to be done to switch the OOG diver tot he long hose, whilst the donor goes back on the stage? Is that correct? If so, you have, for a short period of time, someone very close to you on a stage hose, and a bit more work to do than if the long hose reg was somehow more available, on a breakaway, perhaps?

I am not trying to tear apart any practises here, just figure them out. I have the clip, as I said, but because I don't see the benefit underwater I only use it to keep the reg tidy and safe out of the water.

I can;'t answer this one with the DIR answer, as I'm not DIR tech trained. Yet. Course booked for November . I saqw a diver once with their primary reg on its long hose laying on the top of his cylinders where he couldn't reach them. On my own deco procedures course, the reg was dnagling 6 feet below me after I had moved to a stage, and it actually arrested my ascent when it got caught up in something. I can deifnitely see the benefit of clipping off underwater

[Noel Johnson]

Originally Posted by Lou

Ah-hah! I don't know if you noticed, but C dives indies and this is a perennial debate.

Her solution is to have an "open" necklace, and the reg she is not breathing off is stowed in that, whilst the one she is breathing off is free to be grabbed. Obviously if you grab the one on the regular hose you need to swap to the long hose, but at least nothing is clipped off hard.

I don't know if this will help Lou, but when I dived indies after some trials and tribulations I had both regs clipped off on either side on my pull down straps - and both on breakaways. That way both regs were exactly where I left them and could be grabbed at will.

[Majo]

Being new at this my understanding is for reg clip off;

somethings is wrong with it

or

It's a drill (be unlucky to get OOA at that point, but it's quick to unclip)

or

it's on land and it doesn't drag, on ground etc.

Don't use stages yet but again I would imagin it would get clipped away, in OOA they take the one you are using and you get the next best one

Anyother time it's in mine or my buddies mouth

[Clare Gledhill]

Originally Posted by Garf

Not quite with you. I'm afraid Lou. Give me the scenario you have in mind.

As already stated, reg has three positions, in my mouth, in someone else's mouth or clipped off. In each position I know exactly where it is.

OK - so I am OOG - and on my buddy's long hose - my reg is clipped off so it doesn't fall below me and catch. It is no use to me any more after all.

Or I am on a stage - so my reg is clipped off so it does get caught up. My buddy goes OOG - I donate what I am breathing and switch to my back up. When things have clamed down I may wish to re organise - unclip long hose and either return to it myslef or put my buddy on it - but the donation has alreay been made and there is time to sort these things out.

I am on a stage and wish to switch back to back gas - before swicthing to the next deco gas. Unclip reg (which is exactly where I left it) switch to back gas, restow stage, deploy next stage, switch and clip off primary reg again. At every stage of the proceedure if gas donation is needed it is from the mouth.

Regs on long hoses which are not clipped off will move and not be exactly where you want them to be. When this happens they will snag or free flow - either when scootering or when there is a GUE instructor around

As Garf said, we don't use breakaways any more as a standard. The benefit of breakaways was for rebreather divers who would not be able to donate the loop and so would, exeptionally, donate a reg which was not being used.

Problem with a breakaway is it may not break when you want it to - and alternatively, it may break when you don't want it to. O rings which have been attached with cable ties are easy to dislodge - seen it done with no effort at all.

I understand that RB80 users now use cave line.

[Lou]

So, clipping off during the s-drill is the one point where it may cause a problem then?

[Clare Gledhill]

Originally Posted by Lou

So, clipping off during the s-drill is the one point where it may cause a problem then?

If you are clipping off during an S drill you are out of gas - so would not be called on to donate.

If you are clipping of during a valve drill - your buddy should be ready for you should you have a problem. If he does hit you for gas get a better buddy

[Garf]

So, clipping off during the s-drill is the one point where it may cause a problem then?

I guess so, but it's pretty unlikely tbh. Let's look at the different scenarios.

Primary reg failure.
Donatee would notice immediately and just unclip their own primary and donate it

Actual OOA
donatee would notice immediately and just unclip their own primary and donate it

Backup Reg failure.
This is the only one that could cause an issue, as the donatee would have to be signalled that there is a problem. Once signalled, they simply unlip their primary and donate it


For there to be an issue, it has to be specifically the backup that has failed (a failure of the primary or actual running out of gas would be noticed by the donatee anyway). Thedonatee has to have a problem unclipping their primary reg and donating it. finally, the 3rd team member of a DIR team has to be non-existent. All of this is assuming it happens during a drill anyway, as if it happened in a real ooa there is no point unclipping the reg as you are OOA, as Gledders rightly says.

If all of this happens at the same time, yes there "could" be an issue. However, I can list loads of potential problems with not clipping off the reg that result is far more serious and dangerous problems.