Cherry picking the best bits.....

[Mal Bridgeman]

I have often heard people talk of Cherry picking the best bits of DIR.

What are the best bits that people like to cherry pick and moreover what a the not so good parts which people don't choose to chery pick?

TIA
Mal

Can we observe a little rule for this discussion and so try to maintain a degree of civility on the board.... all contributors are allowed to explain their rationale but, however outrageous, will others please try not to convert others to their way of thinking? .... Please

I am just interested what is perceived generally as the good and bad bits.

[Fiona]

Am I allowed to play (sorry I mean post)

As you know I don't know much about it and too shy to find out but I have had conversations with Rick although I think he is a little rigid in his views, but you don't end a conversation with him without something to think about.

I can see that using the same gas mix as your buddy / buddies as in the past I have just done my own thing, but knowing you have the same deco obligation seems a good idea. I can also see the point of having the same kit but I don't believe it to be necessary. I would also like to learn how to frog kick but I don't know how to go about it and there is no harm in repetition of skills which is something most people don't do.

I wouldn't be able to do it though because of the issue with trimix below 30m, I can't justify the cost of the course for a start although reading Garf's Scapa post did have me wondering I just don't see the necessity for such a rigid view.

And the people who are trying to get me on a course have no chance.

[jamesp]

Concentrating on excellance of personal dive skills:--- Good.

Suggesting that other than the way is not good:----- Less good.

JamesP ( trainee YBOD muppet)

[Mark Chase]

Equipment:

DIR don't bring anything to the table that isn't already widely used elsewhere so there is nothing DIR that i use but I do use a canister torch, long hose, Side handle line reel, a gap line spool and a Photon torpedo back up torch all of which are typical of DIR divers

Rigging:

A minimalist rig is a good goal neat hoses well routed. Standardization of equipment in dive teams is something I wish i could get others to do but sadly there is little interest.

Diving practices:

Again none of these are unique to DIR but they are synonymous so....

Minimum air in the dry suit
Matched gas in the team
Matched decompression
Team discipline
Buoyancy control
Good fining technique
Standardization of breathing gas and decompression gas
Standards in set piece safety drills (but its hard to get others to do it)

Training:

Repetitive drills and regular practice sessions.

Sadly for me this is mainly carried out on deco because i have limited dive time available to me but at least i do it.

ATB

Mark Chase

[chrisch]

I don't think you can pick and choose bits. The DIR system is based around a way of thinking that sort of says this is the best we can some up with for the time being (not the best period - but the best compromise) and this is the way we should all behave and kit out. That way we are all aware of what each other is doing.

If you don't buy into that you are not following the agreed standards and so you are an unknown factor.

People see it as a kit thing, it is not. Hogarthian is not so far away and god knows how many arguments there are about that (I've had a few ) but HOG is not as cut and dried as DIR.

DIR is a good system. It has a place in diving and IMO has been something that has improved standards generally. The BS and arguments have mainly been on the internet not in the real world. GI3 was notorious as an internet gobshite, but every report I have seen of people who met the guy in person was positive.

No. I think breaking the system down is to misunderstand that it is just that - a system - eat it all or don't start.....

Chris

[Diving Dude]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

What are the best bits that people like to cherry pick

The red ones.

[Digger]

Well, I don't see it as DIR as much as a hog rig, as from an equipment POV that's what it is pretty much. But I have nicked bits from that.

Just changed my wing in fact for an unbungeed one, but this one is somewhat larger than reccomended. But it will look lovely and pretty.

Long(ish) hose. Currently 1.5m is all I need, and does me for open water diving.

I don't do hogloops. I can't be bothered having my head taken off by a novice or other diver losing it when they grab my manifold and pull the reg from the back left. We've discussed it before, and everyone who hogloops tried to tell me it wasn't possible or it wouldn't be a problem, but everyone who I've demonstrated it on doesn't hog loop any more. Using my delightful technique it takes your primary reg out of your mouth, prevents you getting the long hose over your head, strangles a bit (but not snough to stop you breathing really) and the backup reg gets caught up too, so you can't brethe that either. The only option available to you if you get sprung with this is to punch over your left shoulder and hope that you manage to get them off. I'll try and find the thread, it got a bit silly when we went into it last time but I've had it done to me gently and it scared the bejesus out of me and won't hogloop as a result.

I'll have the jetfins, they're great. But then we've known that for a while.

Spring straps I did have, when I get the time I'm going to change them out for bungeed ones. The springs have had line caught in them briefly before and it was significantly annoying, and I've not seen a design yet which doesn't expose some of the spring, usually at the sides where it's most likely to get caught, and usually where it's going to be next to the line, if you see what I mean.

Apeks, aqualung, scubapro regs, all fine. I used to dive poseidons but because the kiss has apeks 1st stages on I decided to standardise this. Plus they are just regs that work. Despite being treated like crap. And the hoses are much cheaper.

Upright twins I did, but now I have a KISS. The unit is about as minimalist as a CCR can be, and allows me to keep most of my gear the same. I tried inverts and found eventually that I was better at shutdowns with the upright tanks, as the valves were actually easier to get to. I don't know why it used to be so difficult, but when I went back to OC for trimix it was just easy. Maybe I just didn't give it chance before, or my suit or something was getting in the way.

I have a membrane suit, but it's just about to get changed. They're just not as warm, no matter what undersuit you put under there. I think compressed neo is the weapon of choice anyway, and this would be what I would have if money were no object, but as it is thick neo was ok before, and will be ok again. It's warm on deco, and not too hot swimming about. Which works for me. The buoyancy change is no great shakes, on OC your buoyancy shifts that much anyway it makes little difference IMO.

The team mentality I woud love, but it is hard to get. I dive with some people and we are a team. I dive with others and it's like I don't exist. Especially on CCR, where people are focused on the dive, their unit, and then me. In that order at times. If I could find a team of CCR divers who dive like DIR divers (seeing buddy separation as an "oh shit", instead of an "oh well") then I'd dive with them all the time, and probably love it.

I dive a VR3 because I can run the numbers in my head, but I also like to have the hassle free approach. We now have deco on the fly for rebreathers, and it works as well as my understanding of GUE DOTF but it does have its limits, as does GUE DOTF from my understanding.

Other than that I thikn that's about it. Oh, and the AL80s. THey're nice. Very good for the breather, when the bailuot is full all the time. I don't know if they'd be as good on OC at lower pressures, if I bail out I can live with that, but I wouldn't want it every dive. Below 60 bar they're just too floaty. But then on OC you shouldn't have anything below 60 bar!

And I dive 232 all the time now. 300 bar isn't a good option for gas diving, and a 300 bar twinset is a sure sign of a nitrox diver who likes to have lots of gas and no lead. Great for that job, but even diving nitrox I think I'd rather have a big 232 set than a small 300 set now.

Good thread Mal. Good to see what people are doing out there, and finding out what people have taken from things.

Digs.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Digger

...
I don't do hogloops. I can't be bothered having my head taken off by a novice or other diver losing it when they grab my manifold and pull the reg from the back left. We've discussed it before, and everyone who hogloops tried to tell me it wasn't possible or it wouldn't be a problem, but everyone who I've demonstrated it on doesn't hog loop any more. ...

That's why I don't think you can cherry pick. HOG loop is fine unless you have missed rule #1 - the jerk that strangles you.....

I dive a long hose and I dive with a variety of folk (although the missus is my buddy). Far safer to tuck the hose in your wing bungies.....

Chris

[Digger]

That's the thing. It works fine if you dive with DIR divers or those trained to take it in a certain way, or not take it in a certain way as the case may be.

I should really make a video of the thing. It's really quite convincing. And yet I see people not trained to dive this way doing it with people who know nothing about hoglooping, I see peopel dive in threes who have never been trained to dive that way, and what a surprise it all goes horribly wrong and someone gets lost.

I'd love to have the option of rule 1 and dive with the people I choose, but most of them just don't dive often enough, or want to do the same dives I do. I have plans to do some dives that none of my mates, or at least very few of them, want to do. So I have to find a way to either do it on my own or find another group of who knows who to dive with. Not ideal, but it works.

Anyway, no more hijacking.

[Woz]

Things I have nicked from DIR:

Good buoyancy control- I now try to teach lesson 5 for the new Ocean Divers off the pool bottom- by this stage their buoyancy control is reasonable and they get it about 1/2 the time.
Hose config- basically my hoses are set up DIR stylee but I have the 2m hose on the OMS wing fabric loops. Suits RIB diving much better.
Backup torch on the harness- neat idea.
Trim- stopping finning and just sitting in the water without and pitch, roll or yaw is a great trick and makes doing other things (like taking photos) much easier
Finning- forwards, backwards, helicopter- all dead easy with a bit if practice and always used. However the Woz Patented Mini Flutter is even cooler and you zoom around while not actually appearing to move any part of your body. It's magic I tell you, magic.
Jetfins and springstraps- lovely.
Harness, wing and backplate- lovely.

Silly DIR things:
Boots (not) on cyls. Put them back on. Makes life much easier.
Masks on back of heads when at the surface.
No harness break. Crap for RIB diving.
Canister battery stowage. Stick it on the plate. Much more sensible.
Scooters. Do you really need one for the Scylla? Really?