Curious....

[Tricky]

Originally Posted by Paul r h

Not looking to discredit anyone,just pointing out some facts

You do appear to be overlooking one vital part of Rich's post though. It is not easy to become a GUE Instructor. There is no "accelerated route" along this path, and it is not a qualification you can buy (yes, I know you didn't say that you could). Clare has been passed fit to teach the fundamentals of GUE diving. As a Tech 2 and Cave 2 diver she clearly has a very good grasp of these fundamentals.

Now, if she was a Tech 1 or Cave 1 instructor then you may have a valid point, although I suspect that she'd make a more than suitable candidate for that role too.

[PBrown]

Originally Posted by Paul r h

that can only be gleaned from experience.

I don't think any body is dis-agreeing with you on that point, but it seems to me that you are equating time with experience, and ignoring the number of dives been done. If I do say 5 dives per year and have been diving for 10 years, am I more experienced than someone who has dived for one year, but done 60 dives?

Equally there is the type of dive being done. Who is the more experienced, an instructor who does 150 5m try dives per year, or an instructor who does 50 5m try dives & a mix of 50 trimix or cave dives per year?

First time I met Clare was in Florida, at that time she had 0 cave dives. Since then I suspect quite strongly that she has surpassed the number of cave dives that I have, so although I have been cave diving longer, which of us is the more experienced cave diver?

cheers,
Paul

[Paul r h]

Post removed.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Paul r h

Ok guys i think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.We obviously have very different views on this.I note that from looking at the profiles of the people who have responded ie forum and PM,s that most of you are of a DIR persuation,c,mon guys diving is as much about self education as any form of direct instruction,take off the blinkers and look outside of the box,diving is about exploration not diving in quarries or pontificating about how many D-rings you should have on your harness
Paul

Paul

Let me start by posting a few facts because I think you are bang out of order here and the tone of your post has riled me somewhat.

Firstly Clare is a very good friend of mine.

Secondly I am also of the DIR persuasion.

Thirdly, I have been diving for 15 years and training and helping to train open water divers for most of that time.

Fourthly, I have taken training from a number of sources.

Fifthly, I am a moderator on this site but this post is in a "personal capacity"

I have dived with Clare for about 2 years on and off and have seen her develop into the truely exceptional diver she is today.

My first dives with her were in Pembrokeshire almost 2 years to the day ago when she was freshly out of Fundies with more enthusiasm than experience but still made a tidy if somewhat novice diver, IMO.

I didn't dive with her again till Dec 2005 but during the year did keep in close contact as she started a first steps into the world of the Diving Professional. Many hours were spent discussing the motivations to teach, the different style of teaching, the problems encountered and how one coped with the highs and lows of teaching.

I dived with her again in Dec 2005 and was astonished at how competent she had become in the water to such a point that any feelings I might have had of sharing my knowledge & skills were shelved because I now realised that she was someone I could now learn from. This is in my view quite an achievement.....to surpass my 14 years of diving experience in about a year.... What is not immediately obvious to many is who Clare dives with for fun. They really are divers who are "up there" so whilst it's possible to spend years diving with numpties to gain experience, that can be short circuited by diving with top divers......an opportunity that's not available to the rest of us but one that was available to her and one she took to her advantage.

We then did a Trimix course together where I learned loads about deco from her and again found myself, whilst okay, falling behind her in terms of in water skills.

I did a couple of dives with her during 2006 but as 2007 approached I had the opportunity to do the GUE Fundamentals course with her as instructor. If you have any doubts about her as an Instructor then you need to get yourself on a course with her and then be prepared to eat some humble pie. She has now matched the in water stuff with the classroom stuff. As a new instructor, of course there are things around classroom craft that she is improving but make no mistake there is no doubt that she is already a very competent instructor. To suggest otherwise, is disrespectful to the likes of JJ, Richard Lungren and the other members of the GUE Training Council who have approved her Instructor Status.

I have then seen her operate without the watchful eyes of the Instructor Examiner and would suggest that she is even better now ... able to offer a challenging course to the inexperienced newbie through to Advanced Trimix Diver.

If anyone reading this thread has any doubt about her ability as an Instructor then they need not have those doubts. I look forward to when she is a Tech 1 Instructor because I think it will do great things for DIR and GUE in the UK.

Paul, If you were genuinely wanting to point out a few facts then why did you feel the need to point out how many sub 70m dives you've done? You have come across to me, in a very unprofessional way, attempting to denigrate another instructor with no basis for that criticism and trying to "big up" yourself. Your "facts" are selective and misguided and posted in a thread where prospective customers are making assessments about her for possible future courses. The least you can do is withdraw your remarks and if you are a gentleman, you would apologise.

Mal

[Paul r h]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Paul

Let me start by posting a few facts because I think you are bang out of order here and the tone of your post has riled me somewhat.

Firstly Clare is a very good friend of mine.

Secondly I am also of the DIR persuasion.

Thirdly, I have been diving for 15 years and training and helping to train open water divers for most of that time.

Fourthly, I have taken training from a number of sources.

Fifthly, I am a moderator on this site but this post is in a "personal capacity"

I have dived with Clare for about 2 years on and off and have seen her develop into the truely exceptional diver she is today.

My first dives with her were in Pembrokeshire almost 2 years to the day ago when she was freshly out of Fundies with more enthusiasm than experience but still made a tidy if somewhat novice diver, IMO.

I didn't dive with her again till Dec 2005 but during the year did keep in close contact as she started a first steps into the world of the Diving Professional. Many hours were spent discussing the motivations to teach, the different style of teaching, the problems encountered and how one coped with the highs and lows of teaching.

I dived with her again in Dec 2005 and was astonished at how competent she had become in the water to such a point that any feelings I might have had of sharing my knowledge & skills were shelved because I now realised that she was someone I could now learn from. This is in my view quite an achievement.....to surpass my 14 years of diving experience in about a year.... What is not immediately obvious to many is who Clare dives with for fun. They really are divers who are "up there" so whilst it's possible to spend years diving with numpties to gain experience, that can be short circuited by diving with top divers......an opportunity that's not available to the rest of us but one that was available to her and one she took to her advantage.

We then did a Trimix course together where I learned loads about deco from her and again found myself, whilst okay, falling behind her in terms of in water skills.

I did a couple of dives with her during 2006 but as 2007 approached I had the opportunity to do the GUE Fundamentals course with her as instructor. If you have any doubts about her as an Instructor then you need to get yourself on a course with her and then be prepared to eat some humble pie. She has now matched the in water stuff with the classroom stuff. As a new instructor, of course there are things around classroom craft that she is improving but make no mistake there is no doubt that she is already a very competent instructor. To suggest otherwise, is disrespectful to the likes of JJ, Richard Lungren and the other members of the GUE Training Council who have approved her Instructor Status.

I have then seen her operate without the watchful eyes of the Instructor Examiner and would suggest that she is even better now ... able to offer a challenging course to the inexperienced newbie through to Advanced Trimix Diver.

If anyone reading this thread has any doubt about her ability as an Instructor then they need not have those doubts. I look forward to when she is a Tech 1 Instructor because I think it will do great things for DIR and GUE in the UK.

Paul, If you were genuinely wanting to point out a few facts then why did you feel the need to point out how many sub 70m dives you've done? You have come across to me, in a very unprofessional way, attempting to denigrate another instructor with no basis for that criticism and trying to "big up" yourself. Your "facts" are selective and misguided and posted in a thread where prospective customers are making assessments about her for possible future courses. The least you can do is withdraw your remarks and if you are a gentleman, you would apologise.

Mal

Reply retracted

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by Paul r h

I note that from looking at the profiles of the people who have responded ie forum and PM,s that most of you are of a DIR persuation,c,mon guys diving is as much about self education as any form of direct instruction,take off the blinkers and look outside of the box
Paul

Paul you really are making yourself look very silly, which instructor manual did you get that line out of.

You obviously don't know me but I suspect I am one of these DIR people (yes a real fundamentalist for about a week), I don't like the term either but then again a did a GUE course to which you are referring to as I have posted. So diving is about self education ? yet it is clear from your profile that you have undertaken a lot of instruction.

Originally Posted by Paul r h

For quite a few years we have had to endure the DIR guys forcing there dros down our throats in one way or another.I find the term DIR to be offensive in its self as it implies the rest of us are doing it wrong,how
much longer must the rest of us tolerate this crap.

Paul.

Again you might have been round for a while but clearly haven't been part of this community for a while otherwise you would know that the "forcing their dross down our throats" hasn't been part of this forum for a long time. I agree I was completely put off by wannabees who had found enlightenment, it all depends on who you speak to. I am completely comfortable with my current training path, I didn't have anything rammed down my throat but I can see why the system works if you want it to.

[Captain Deco]

Originally Posted by Paul r h

Sorry Mal i will neither apolagise nor withdraw my posts,gentleman or not.
For quite a few years we have had to endure the DIR guys forcing there dros down our throats in one way or another.I find the term DIR to be offensive in its self as it implies the rest of us are doing it wrong,how
much longer must the rest of us tolerate this crap.

Paul.

Nice one. I am glad that you have managed to slag off one entire section of diving because you are offended by the term "DIR". Considering you told people to "take off the blinkers and look outside the box", (WOW!!! Buzzword bingo anyone?? Bagsy I say "blue sky thinking first), it seems funny that you cannot accept that someone may be a good instructor as they have spent less time in the water than you. Whatever the school of thought is on DIR, I do seem to recall that it was well documented that the GUE training had some of the same ideas as other training agencies, some of which you named - so that means you have also indirectly stated that you don't hold much self belief in the way you have been trained. And also - is it really that offensive a word? That's like being offended by the word cheese or lemon.

And you posted in the DIR section too.

That's priceless. You had DIR forced down your throat by deliberatley posting in the section that applies to that style of diving. I think you wandered into the wrong section with not enough info and too much opinion. I used to be the same way, and decided to put my money where my mouth was....did a fundies course, and learnt alot about diving, not to mention myself.

Prepared to do the same?

I bet I know the answer.

[Lou]

Guys, just chill out - remember that this is the guy who got arsey when called on his stupid, early, "April Fool" about "Adjusted Nitrogen".

Who's that clip-clip-clopping over my bridge?

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Lou

Guys, just chill out - remember that this is the guy who got arsey when called on his stupid, early, "April Fool" about "Adjusted Nitrogen".

Who's that clip-clip-clopping over my bridge?

what you doin in this forum. Thought your keyboard would burst into flame if you came in here.

At the risk of setting a worrying precedent, and despite serious misgivings, I find myself forced to agree with Lou. Again. Gah.

It's just a troll, ignore him. As soon as the "fed up of DIR" nonsense finally raised it's head, which it had clearly been aching to do, I just switched off. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Paul r h

Sorry Mal i will neither apolagise nor withdraw my posts,gentleman or not.
For quite a few years we have had to endure the DIR guys forcing there dros down our throats in one form or another.I find the term DIR to be offensive in its self as it implies the rest of us are doing it wrong,how
much longer must the rest of the dive community be expected silently tolerate this assumed superiorority.

Paul.

Ahhh ... so you have a problem with DIR....Fair enough .... you are entitled to the opinion .....

If you have a valid issue with DIR then start a thread about it and put forward your arguments.

My issue is that you sought to denigrate another instructor in an unprofessional way.

EDIT - Now you have shown your true colours I am sure readers will be able to make their own assessment of the validity of your comments

Mal