Experience DIR/Fresh Water/Sea etc w: Exp DIR - Weekend 11/12 August 2007 - Vobster

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by wilbo

Terry - you use the word 'Teach'. Thats a strong word.

'Demonstration' is the more accurate word here.

Rich Walker and the other fundies instructors 'Teach'. If any of the people want to try skills - then they should seek proper training.

I thought these sessions were to demonstrate skills to those who are DIR curious - so those people can see what happens (and to quash the DIR/elitism pre-conception) and can - if they are still interested book a course with Rich or the other instructors..

Yep agree with most of that, and yet again I'll say that this is not a pop at
this session or group.

As for defining what is taught and what is demonstrated.

Rich's example: "I liked the way you sent up that DSMB. Please could you
tell me how you do it, and do it again on the next dive, nice and slow?"

How much do you reckon the barristers will eek out of you trying to argue
over that one?

[neilh]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

.....and would hope that those who attend the session, see the level of proficiency in skills the guys have, and would hanker after the same which everyone agrees can only be done under the guidance of a professional instructor.

Hahahahah! Not sure it will be quite like that for all of us, but hopefully we'll manage to demonstrate most of the stuff without making a complete hash of it! (Rich excepted, clearly, he'll be just fine )

Originally Posted by milldog

you could have one of these mate

PMSL! Nice one, I'll keep an eye out for the usual email ads for those!

Originally Posted by TerryH

My concern is more for those
reading this who fancy themselves as Instructors and next time out decide
that mentoring of existing skills isnt enough.

Simply pointed out that there was a difference between mentoring
and teaching.

That's what I picked up from your post Terry and agreed, that's an important difference. Personally speaking when I was looking into DIR a number of people kindly took me diving and demonstrated things. That led me down the path I'm now going and I recognise the tremendous benefit I got from that. Now I have a chance to do the same for others, so why not!

Perhaps more disturbing is that I can't think of a good argument against Howard calling it "grooming"

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by TerryH

As for defining what is taught and what is demonstrated.

Rich's example: "I liked the way you sent up that DSMB. Please could you
tell me how you do it, and do it again on the next dive, nice and slow?"

How much do you reckon the barristers will eek out of you trying to argue
over that one?

When I get into the water with a buddy - I don't sign anything. We don't have a discussion about what type of diving we are doing (unless the dive merits it). We just get into the water and go diving (after discussing where we are going to go) - we are just two qualified divers in the water. If I am getting rusty on something - or I do something wrong and my buddy corrects me - are they teaching me? No they are not. They are correcting me on a skill I already have. I am getting at skills dives here.. not 'proper' sea dives..

If it is a completely new skill - then I would expect my buddy to ask me to get properly trained - for exactly the reason you are getting at.

Take the DSMB example. Most - if not all the people (and this is an assumption) that are attending these mentoring sessions (as thats what we are talking about) will have sent a DSMB up. If they haven't then they need to get an instructor to show them. If they have then it is just another way of sending it up. Its a demonstration - not an invitation to copy.

If I *demonstrate* something and a person chooses to copy - am I 'teaching'?
- we are coming to the paring of hairs again..

[David]

now I am confused only read half the thread so that dont help :-)

will an instructor show me how to put up a DSMB in a diffrent way because he is getting payed. should that read why would an instructor show me a diffrent way because he was getting payed....

would I refuse to show someone how to do it, Yes if I thought they were not at that level of diving yet. would I mind if someone said to me no your not good enough yet, No

please tell where the problem is. I think ive lost the plot on this one. last time I got told to put my hand in the fire it hurt :-)

David

[Garf]

Originally Posted by David

now I am confused only read half the thread so that dont help :-)

will an instructor show me how to put up a DSMB in a diffrent way because he is getting payed. should that read why would an instructor show me a diffrent way because he was getting payed....

would I refuse to show someone how to do it, Yes if I thought they were not at that level of diving yet. would I mind if someone said to me no your not good enough yet, No

please tell where the problem is. I think ive lost the plot on this one. last time I got told to put my hand in the fire it hurt :-)

David

hmm. The assimilation seems to be struggling. I'm going to have to up your dosage. Again.

[David]

Originally Posted by Garf

hmm. The assimilation seems to be struggling. I'm going to have to up your dosage. Again.

nope I rewired the implant :-) I got a nice inbuilt mp3 player now, I just cant get these voices out of my head.

DAvid

[Lou]

Can we get rid of the word "Mentoring" on grounds of inaccuracy, if nothing else?

v. men·tored, men·tor·ing, men·tors Informal

v. intr.
To serve as a wise and trusted counselor or teacher, especially in occupational settings.

v. tr.
To serve as a wise and trusted counselor or teacher to (another person).

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by David

now I am confused only read half the thread so that dont help :-)

will an instructor show me how to put up a DSMB in a diffrent way because he is getting payed. should that read why would an instructor show me a diffrent way because he was getting payed....

would I refuse to show someone how to do it, Yes if I thought they were not at that level of diving yet. would I mind if someone said to me no your not good enough yet, No

please tell where the problem is. I think ive lost the plot on this one. last time I got told to put my hand in the fire it hurt :-)

David

The problem is that if you were taught and later came a croper because
you did it wrong, then your family etc. would have an avenue of attack.

An Instructor has both syllabus and full sancion of the body they belong to.

A well meaning amatuer is cannon fodder for lawyers.

[Fiona]

I think I have lost the will to live


(yes I know not very funny)

[GLOC]

Teddy's out of cot time.

Titles changed to Experience DIR.... in all the threads.

Not sure if you were taking the piss Lou but that is exactly what we were passing on, information. I have gained some wisdom (not all admittedly as there is loads to learn) but I believe I am wise in some parts to my diving.

I understand what some people are saying but having spoken to the rest of TFT, we have come to the conclusion that it is our trainset. We have invited some friends down for a days diving where we will show them skills which are a baseline for DIR diving. These skills are taught, practiced and reinforced through the formal GUE fundamentals course using an instructor.

Please, if you are not interested in this weekend, or further weekends/days, leave the threads. I posted this on YD because this is where the majority of people who are wavering/show some interest are based. Most of those on DIRx have already shown that interest.

Sorry, if it appears like a rant, that's because it is!!