Fundies Kit Check

[Finless]

Originally Posted by divingniknaks

Finless is the word Oxymoron ?

I dunno, SWMBO usually calls me a silly cnut?

I think Bardo meant turn up prepared to listen and then make your mind up after you have the facts presented to you. Unlike some people who have turned up and tried to convert the Instructor

Excellent. The picture thaat brought to mind still has me chuckling!!

Enjoy your dive .

I'll try.

[Steve S]

If you are going to progress further down the GUE/DIR route than Fundamentals then you are going to have to buy ''compliant'' [hate that word] kit.
Now the Devil may be in the detail and I fully accept that standards may not be as rigid as t'internet would have you believe, but most GUE/DIR divers I have seen and dived with all seem to have pretty much the same kit both in names and usually colour

We all make mistakes with kit I know I did, but I doubt I would have been comfortable using a singles wing and backplate from the start, so that may have put me off diving in general, I found the natural heads up of a BC at the surface a great comfort in the early days.

These days I just use my BC for pool lessons, lower grade open water lessons and warm water diving, I still feel very comfortable in it.....horses for courses and all that.

Safe diving,
Steve

[Finless]

Originally Posted by DorsetDiver

Wings are great, you'll never go back to a jacket BCD once you've used one.

I wouldn't mind if a BCD could support my cylinders.

I never had an issue with discomfort or trim with a BCD and I like all the pockets. In the UK I use a dry suit for buoyyancy anyway. Personally I don't find using a wing so fantastic that I wouldn't switch back.

When my joints and muscles become too crumbly and weak to support twin 12s+ then I will happily go back (that'll be next week ).

As it happens I have a backup Mares BCD style wing which I still miss using (max lift twin 10s) and is now holiday kit.

[Clare Gledhill]

GUE Fundamentals is an introduction to GUE which does require a few bits of kit if you want to take part on the course. Ity's not that odd to ask people who wish to learn about something to use the gear on the course - I doubt any CCR instructor would allow you to do MOD 1 without a bought or borrowed unit.

Non split fins (to do the kicks we practice on the course)
A wing and backplate with a continuous harness - we fit this for you on the course and show you how to use it so there would be little point in not having one available.
A long hose - as we teach from the mouth donation.
A non bungied wing of appropriate size - again, we will show you how to use it on the course.
If you dive a twinset then it must be manifolded as you will be taught shut downs.

It's not about having to pay for it all in advance - especially if you haven't decided to switch over. I have lent entire equipment sets to people who have come along wanting to take part and see what we have to offer and I know that other UK instructors do the same.

So.... having said all that, why do DIR divers end up looking the same?

Well to be honest once I decided to follow the DIR training method, whenever I bought kit I bought the kit which was recommeded so gradually shifted my gear to what is the 'standard'. I started in quatro fins and a hunter drysuit, twin 7s with MDE valves and no light. I did up to Tech 1 without a single piece of DUI or Halcyon kit. I had bought scubapro regs when I started diving and I still use these on my stages and a vytec compter which did me up until recently when I decided I wanted a change.

[Lazlo]

I understand the desire for standardisation - that seems to be part of the point. Interchangeability of buddies, common procedures etc. However, some of the restrictions don't seem to have anything much to do with that.

Originally Posted by Clare Gledhill

Non split fins (to do the kicks we practice on the course) Fair enough
A wing and backplate with a continuous harness - we fit this for you on the course and show you how to use it so there would be little point in not having one available. Sort of - BP + harness ok. But continuous?
A long hose - as we teach from the mouth donation. Fair enough
A non bungied wing of appropriate size - again, we will show you how to use it on the course.Don't see this at all. I'd have thought, that as long as you have dump valves in standard places, and maybe that there are the right number of inflation hoses, that they're the right length etc....
If you dive a twinset then it must be manifolded as you will be taught shut downs. Fair enough

Just to digress on bungees a bit: From the GUE website:

Some BC's have become known as “bondage wings” because they support a series of elastic bands that restrict the size of the wings. This design introduces a whole new range of problems for the diver who selects to use them. These include: uneven inflation, off-kilter trim, the potential exacerbation of small BC punctures, increased drag, and resistance to manual inflation. In short, bondage style wings have no place in DIR diving configurations.
..snip...
Alternatively, divers can avoid all these modifications, and purchase a BC that is specifically designed for DIR, namely, the Halcyon BC.

Well that's one opinion . But what's it got to do with the actual point of standardisation - i.e. the ability for one team member to understand and operate another team member's kit?

What about neoprene drysuits?

As I say, I can definitely see the advantage with standardisation, but sometimes it seems to be taken to extremes.

I think it's a shame because GUE seem to be doing a lot of things right, but people ARE put off by some apparently unreasonable kit stipulations. Me for one.



p.s. Usual DIR post disclaimer: I don't want to start a ruck, so anyone that does can take it elsewehere. Thanks very much.

[finbar.taylor]

Originally Posted by Clare Gledhill

It's not about having to pay for it all in advance - especially if you haven't decided to switch over. I have lent entire equipment sets to people who have come along wanting to take part and see what we have to offer

That's not fair I bought my own knife ( and sharpened it!)

[finbar.taylor]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

What about neoprene drysuits?

I wore one and it was accepted once I proved I could shut down either post with either arm

as I understand it it's fine as long as it dose not restrict movement.

[Garf]

Hi Ian

Don't want to start a ruck, but you have questioned some of the equipment configuration, so I hope you don't mind me responding, especially given that we are in the DIR forum, and this is a thread discussingf DIR kit.

1. Continous Harness.
i.e. No breaks. nothing to fail. This one splits opinions right down the middle. There really is no right or wrong answer. Some people find it easier with a break, some don't care. Some people see the break as a potential failure point, some don'tThe DIR equipment config selects the no breaks option, so no breaks is the standard.

2. A non bungied wing of appropriate size.
Two issues here. Firstly, the bungie. This is a seen as unecessary if the wing is the corect size, and a potential entanglement hazard. It has also been argued that the bungie might deflate the wing if it is punctured, but I think this is a bit crap. However, the wing being the correct size means a 100lb wing is just not necessary so why bother. We use 40lb unbungieed wings with twin 12s and 3 stages.

3. Drysuits
With regards to drysuits, membranes or crushed neoprene are the preferred options as they do not change their buoyancy characteristics at depth as neoprene ones do. However, as long as you can perform the appropriate drills, pretty much anything will do for fundies.

I read you post as you agreeing with standardisation except where it fits in with your personal ideal. The whole point of standardisation is that it might not be idea for every situation, but the belief is that the configuration is the best compromise to cover every type of diving situation. You can always find specific examples where it is not optimal. That configuration is debated constantly, and tweaked where improvements are identified.

However, as I always say, DIR works for some, not for others. Realistically, you will, as a DIR diver, agree with 90% of the equipment configuration, and the procedures, and think the rest is a bit silly, but the value is in having a standard in itself that everyone adheres to. One of the true strengths of fundies is that you adhere to the entire thing for a few days, see DIR in its entirety rather than picking holes in individual bits or cherry picking the bits you like. The strength of DIR is in the bigger picture, how it all fits together, not in the silly details that get discussed ad nauseam on the internet regarding specific boltsnaps etc.

[Lazlo]

Thanks for that Garf. As you say, this is a DIR forum, so I'm (extra) careful as to what I say ....

I can't disagree with anything you say, and indeed I'm not looking to find fault at all. It's just something that interests me.

The central point it seems to me is this:

Originally Posted by garf

I read you post as you agreeing with standardisation except where it fits in with your personal ideal. The whole point of standardisation is that it might not be idea for every situation, but the belief is that the configuration is the best compromise to cover every type of diving situation. You can always find specific examples where it is not optimal. That configuration is debated constantly, and tweaked where improvements are identified.

I do indeed see the benefit of standardisation. The point I am (clumsily) trying to make, is that it seems to be taking things a bit too far. To use the bungee thing as an example only: while accepting that everybody will have their own views as to what is best in any given situation, it seems unreasonable to justify such preferences on the basis of standardisation, or on training requirements (e.g. if I am to be taught how to fin backwards, then obviously I need a flat-bladed, non-split fin).

As regards suits: the GUE site quotes a figure of 25 lbs required to offset neoprene suits - which seems quite a lot, but if true then fair enough - without double BC bladder redundancy 25 lbs is a lot to ask of a drysuit. So, no problem with a ban against uncrushed/uncompressed neoprene. Short answer: point taken.

One day I may do a fundies course and be converted... who knows? I really like the sound of the buoyancy/trim stuff, backward finning and so on. Plus, with the exception of my BC, I'm already about 90% Hogarthian.