Single piece of webbing for harness

[Brian of Aquanauts]

Originally Posted by TerryH

Well it would be a bit difficult for your average dive-boat skipper not to
pick up how the odd clip worked. Main difference IMO is whether you can
get someone out one-handed without cutting. Soon as you introduce the
prospect of having to cut, you also introduce the prospect of not having
anything to cut with.

Be much happier with a skipper attempting to undo a basic common or
garden clip, then I would him trying desperatly to locate some sort of
cutting device.

There are many different methods that skippers use to get people out of the water. I know of a few that use a davit and just get a hook onto someones gear and winch them out of the water. In this case a 1 piece harness is more secure.

A lot have lifts, so it's a case of a boat hook and dragging the victim onto the lift and using that, gear and all.

I think you're talking about ribs... which are really the easiest to get someone back onboard.

Any skipper that has a problem with a 1 piece is a complete idiot, and instead of monaing about their own lack of knowledge should just learn how to deal with their customers requirements, and learn how to get someone out of a 1 piece quickly. I have found it actually quicker to remove someone from a 1 piece than to find and undo all the clips, however I do have more experience of this type of harness than your average skipper.

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by dublinbay

One handed?? Doubt it. Cant see anyone being so cool using one hand only. Place the divers hand under webbing and pull webbing and hand in opposite direction. Try it, it works.

Err he's one-handed cause he's using the other hand to try and hold onto
the diver bobbing about in the water. Yes he might have a boothook,
line, clip etc, but worse case is that he's managed to grab hold and is now
trying to get diver (minus kit) in a place of safety.

There is a video (I think it's a HSE one) of a skipper on a boat in Scotland
that had no lift and was unable to get a loan diver back onboard. He was
hanging on one handed from the bottom of the ladder and no crew on boat.

Eventually when some of the rest surfaced they dekitted and got him out,
but sadly too late. I'll try and find the name of it, makes sobering watching.

[warmwaterdiver]

not sure if I'm missing something but even if you have clips, the skipper could still cut the harness

[dublinbay]

Originally Posted by TerryH

Err he's one-handed cause he's using the other hand to try and hold onto
the diver bobbing about in the water. .

Ah, silly me. Thats 2 handed Terry. And if you follow my suggestion re single piece harness, skipper/coxn has both hands on diver

[scuba g]

Originally Posted by dublinbay

No worries big fella, my boys will show you how to get out of single piece harness on the rescue course

Looking forward to it, Ill bring some clips just in case!

[Madfish]

Reading some of the responces on here - I am surprised anyone ever gets past snorkelling in a swimming pool - especially if it was up to what the skippers decided would be easiest to deal with single handedly.....

Once a diver is into one-piece harness territory, it is likely they are also into a twinset and/or stages and is therefore on the outer edge of 'tech' diving. Lets hope that they put as much research into their choice of skipper, boat and buddy as they do kit choice.... Personally I do, and am happy to dive with boats such as Neptune out of Dover, (always a deck hand aboard) Smudge (ditto) Aquanaut (insane yet intelligent skipper - apparently) and yes, I am also willing to pay extra for the priviledge.

Speaking of buddies, Terry, where was the buddy when the scenario you mentioned was played out?

Di

[David]

well my 2 cents worth de kitting should be easy for anyone, the more pactice the easier it should get. what ever kit you decide to use.....

to rescue a diver wearing kit, any kit it is quicker to cut them out... you could say with this you just do x y and z.... if the diver is talking there should be no rush :-)
if they are unconscious speed is needed cutting would give me a single method to work with. I do not then need to worry about what type of diving kit is being used.

I can practice just one method of separating a diver from his kit.

yes I might cut him his dry suit or even me... but is someones life worth more than kit ?

[Clare Gledhill]

Don't you just love YD - people who don't drive boats telling skippers how to do it - and people who don't dive one piece harnesses telling those who do why they don't work.

It's right to give consideration to rescue when you set up your kit. It's responsible to consider how you would rescue your buddy, or how the boat will get you back on board in case of emergency.

Rescuing people from the water is bloody hard and anyone who thinks that they have all the answers is just deluding themselves. Can I draw your attenion to Helen's report where a two man crew (well woman) dragged an unconsious diver from the water, couldn't locate a clip, used a D ring instead to winch the diver on board which broke off - I'm guessing it was sewn on. Frustrating, terrifying at the time I guess - hats off to Helen and Hazel for coping anyway with such a terrific outcome. (link here)

I'm not using this example to justify a one piece harness, or to justify D rings which aren't sewn on - just to point out that it's easy to sit at home and ponitficate that clips are better and easier to use - but on the day those who have to get you out may find otherwise. My harness can have as many breaks in it as you like in an emergency as it can be cut wherever necessary - but it will not break or fail until it's cut. I like it that way as I'm rather attached to having gas on my back stay there until I choose otherwise

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Speaking of buddies, Terry, where was the buddy when the scenario you mentioned was played out?

I'll have to look and try and find it, but if I remember rightly it was a
trimix 3 doing some 60m+ in Scapa or somewhere up there. One of the UK
converted trawler/liveboard type, with a high jump in and long ladder on
the side to get back in (no lift).

Buddies did come uo, but not after they'd done there deco. Remaining
divers also doing deco. So the skipper was holding on for some time and
although tried, could not get the diver up.

I'll look.

[Brian of Aquanauts]

I've just called and had a chat with a couple of other plymouth skippers and i think all 1 piece harness users will be safe down here. As they seem to know what they're doing with various bits of dive kit.

So i'd recommend you all come to Plymouth to dive, as apparently you're not safe if you dive elsewhere.