Single piece of webbing for harness

[Digger]

Just one thing I suggest for anyone who uses breaks in their harness. Try on a dive breaking them. All of them.

This was a mandatory part of the trimix training I did, where you had to break the harness whrever you could, leaving the waist band in place to hold your rig vaguely on your back.

The exercise was easily completed by all on the course I was on. We were carrying stages which meant that the breaks under our arms made no difference to the operation of our gear. If we weren't carrying stages we could have held the D-ring with one finger and ascended.

Fact is a break in your harness isn't going to kill you. Not having a break in your harness could.

Remember that your rescuer may well (and in a lot of cases it is quite unlikely to be) the one or two people you dive with. It often isn't a boat skipper. Often it is an amateur rescuer who knows nothing about one piece harnesses, and didn't kit themselves out the morning they left to go diving to pull your unconscious body out of the water. They may not be able to get to their knife easily. They may not have one at all.

Faced with a sinking body which is dragging me down no gas available, obviously and needing one hand to keep your face above the water, I could have some fun trying to get to a knife and cut you out of your rig. Honest truth, I think it would be bloody hard.

Just my 2c. I used to dive a one piece harness, then we did a whole lot of rescue stuff with some quite experienced and competent divers. They all, to a man, ended up with me playing dead until they had the shears out. They simply couldn't remove an unconscious body which flaps about all over the place from a one piece harness. We tried all manner of different techniques. Now I have one break under my right arm. It makes rescuing me feasible, makes it much easier when I have dryglove rings on to reach down and free myself from one side of my rig in seconds, and also makes it much much easier for me to get out of my gear in the water.

Make your choice. But let's face it, one piece harnesses are mission critical on the tiniest percentage of a tiny percentage of dives. And the quick fix and easy solution to a broken clip is to carry a cable tie in your pocket. Just a really big thick cable tie. If the clip would go through it then the cable tie will as well. With a relatively briefly trained buddy you would have no problem at all doing it underwater. If the clip has failed leaving the main body intact it's even easier.

Again, a massive benefit, with a very small downside, disregarded for reasons pertinent to the few instead of included due to the risk to the many.

Digs.

[Janos]

Those that can, do .....those that can't, argue they have a better method

I love the irony of that statement from a chap who subscribes to a system called Doing It Right!

Janos

[Janos]

Speaking of buddies, Terry, where was the buddy when the scenario you mentioned was played out?

To be fair, even DIR divers sometimes surface alone and in distress. I think it's a worthwhile consideration.

Janos

[neilh]

then again there must be millions of dives a year with people wearing kit with clips/breaks

when was the last time you heard an incident report stating the clip had broken?

I've heard of clips breaking though - so whichever way you look at it you're more likely to have a clip break if you have a clip

and that just about sums it up for me, this is what the DIR set-up is all about, this is what I see as the DIR divers goal

unfortunately of the many DIR entry level divers, not many seem to get to this level and therefore, perhaps, dare I say it, have kit that certainly does fulfill a role but not actually ever use it in the role its been designed for

Trouble is you've missed one of the key points about DIR. It isn't about having the perfect kit config for single tank diving off a RIB, it's about having a platform that will work well from one extreme to another. When I took my first OW dives I never thought that I'd be thinking about trimix and deco dives or cave diving or scootering - but the DIR config will let me progress to whatever level I choose to take it to.

A clip may not cause a major problem on every dive - but the fact that you wouldn't want it breaking in the middle of a cave or wreck means it doesn't have a place on a DIR harness.

It's no big deal surely, can't we go back to whether a rich deco gas should be on the left or right?

I find it amazing, I figured it might attract a bit of discussion but not to this extent.

Your first mistake was the area you posted a question in, it always gets lively in here

[Juz]

And the quick fix and easy solution to a broken clip is to carry a cable tie in your pocket.

Easiest fix is a double ender, on my kit anyway, as I would have a D-ring above and below the break, a double ender joins them nicely.

Juz

[Janos]

I agree but the weather at sea can change in a short time I've found over the years, and I have tried to get out of mine without opening the clip and struggled hence my asking of the 'how to' question. The only time I seen it done in a one piece was by a direr off a RIB in Whitby it was flat calm and he pulled it over it over his head.

One of the skills I dreaded most about my MOD 3 was that the agency I was with mandated divers to do a full kit remove and replace in the water. The kit removal was actually really really easy. Far easier than on dry land as as soon as the waistbelt and crotch strap are off the set floats up and falls off you.

For rib diving I always used to clip my twinset off to the rib with my webbing-with-two-clips attached; get out of my harness (which had a clip) and then haul the twinset it myself. I imagine it would be similar process with my one piece harness

Janos

[Janos]

and in proper English like what I speak Mal?

I think he's saying that if you've no intention of diving six miles back in a cave you shouldn't worry about whether you have a clip in your harness or not.

Janos

[neilh]

Fact is a break in your harness isn't going to kill you. Not having a break in your harness could.

...

Again, a massive benefit, with a very small downside, disregarded for reasons pertinent to the few instead of included due to the risk to the many.

Purely out of interest, just how big a risk is this really? Just how many people are becoming statistics each year as a direct consequence of having a one piece harness?

[Brian of Aquanauts]

Purely out of interest, just how big a risk is this really? Just how many people are becoming statistics each year as a direct consequence of having a one piece harness?

ummmmm none??? I think rebreathers have a much worse safety record..... (Janos, Mark and digger )

[Diving Dude]

.....how many people are becoming statistics each year as a direct consequence of having a one piece harness?

......and how many as a direct consequence of having a break in the harness?

If the answers the same then this is just 14 pages of drivel.