Single piece of webbing for harness

[Kev]

Hello everybody

I have a question or two sparked by a remark from a skipper that DIR harness systems are a danger because they are made from a single piece of webbing.

The skipper in point does not like the approach of no clips in the harness as they would have to cut the webbing in the event of a rescue of an unconcious diver wearing the harness. Thus wasting time, that could be used calling for help, getting the victim out of the water etc. This got me thinking (a rare event you might say)...

Question 1: Is the DIR rationale for the single piece of webbing simply that it is a bad thing to become detached from your tanks that are negative when you as a diver are positive? (I think this is right).

I have seen people dive harness systems similar to the Halcyon type set up but with a single clip in one side. The tanks do not seem to move relative to the diver when the clip is undone. So perhaps having a single clip would be acceptable from this perspective (I appreciate its not in the DIR system to have any clips).

However, I am not sure that undoing a single clip in a harness would be much if any help in rescuing an unconcious diver wearing the harness. Getting the unconcious diver out of the harness is still going to be much quicker with a knife I would think, even with one clip undone.

So lets put two clips in the harness then. Now if you undo them as you dive you will lose your tanks for sure (OK you may lose them at least). Tanks go down, you go up. Not good. Presumably not worth the risk even though it would help in having two clips in the harness for a rescue scenario.

Question 2: Is the skippers concern a real problem? It would not take me long to cut a piece of webbing or two but probably a bit longer than it would take me in undoing a clip or two. That said, any time wasted in a rescue scenario is obviously extremely precious time.

I would be interested in any thoughts and comments.

[witchieblackcat]

A little except from "Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving"

Originally Posted by Jarrod Jablonski

A diver's harness should be rigged from one piece of webbing and should have no quick-release buckles or other failure points. Though plastic quick-release buckles seem to simplify the process of getting in to and out of ones dive gear theses "savings" are illusory. Rather than save time these devices can actually put a diver at greater risk than s/he would be without it. For example, quick release buckles can fail during a dive and as a consequence a diver's life support equipment can pull away from him/her during a critical moment of the dive. Individuals that understand climbing, parachuting and other harness dependent activities should naturally be skeptical about the "savings" found in anything that allows their equipment to "easily come off". Most seasoned divers cringe at the thought of losing theinr tanks from their backs. In many cases this could prove fatal as the diver clings to the tanks whose negative tendency stands in stark contrast to his/her own positive tendency.

Personally I've never had a quick-release clip fail and never heard or one fail. Nor do I cringe at the though of it.

[Woz]

It's all to do with what you do with your diving. If you are scootering 3 miles into a cave system with several stages and a couple of scooters, having a harness break is indeed a massive problem and potentially fatal.

In open water it's less of a problem. Especially hardboat diving. And in open water you are less likely to be carrying as many stages or use a scooter as an essential bit of kit.

If you are RIB diving it's more necessary to have a QR harness (I have a single break in the left shoulder strap under the armpit) as you can be brained by the boat in rough weather if you're not careful and need to be out of it double quick. I have a D ring either side of the break so that if it does decide to break, a 2 second job with a double ender mends it.

[Andy the Coastie]

Wise words from that skipper ...

Thats why I always carry a knife suitable for cutting webbing .

[japandiver]

I'd fully concur with Woz and others - if you are cave diving then having no-breaks is ideal. If you are RIB diving then a break is a fine idea. If you need a break then the only issue to discuss is whether you have a loop behind the break so that if the clip does inadvertently open then it doesn't all go peared shape.

Personally I have used a weight-belt clip, with a 6" loop, low on my LH shoulder strap for 6 years without any problems - often it doesn't get opened but when I'm lunging around in the water and really need to get out of the harness it is a god-send. I put my clip in after being involved in a rescue of an unconcious diver in a one-piece - sawing through webbing is not the quickest way to get someone out of the water and onto O2.

Hugh

[Scubee]

I have heard the same things, not only from skippers, but other rescuers.

I have never heard of someone dying because of a failes harness clip, but I do know of situations where people have had a one peice harness which has delayed the administering of assistance which could have saved their life. The rescuers won't know if, had they been able to get the kit off quicker, would they have been able to save a life.

I have done 600 ish dives. Never once have any of my clips failed during a dive. However, i am sure that soemone will tell you of an example where a failed clip has been the cause of a problem.

Personally, i have a break in my harness.

[Mark Chase]

When Kevin Gurr put together a group to dive the Britannic they carried out training as a group before the trip. Part of the training was surface rescue of divers.

Some of the divers were using single piece harnesses. During the training one such diver was nearly drowned in the attempt to remove the harness. As a result they were not used on the expedition as it was felt they represented a safety risk for surface rescue.

Clip failure on a harness happens on the boat not in the water. When I stand up wearing 150lb of equipment all the weight is on the clips. Once in the water my kit has no weight and the clips are not under any strain.

Following a debate on the potential problems of clip failure I decided to see what would happen if a clip failed. During a dive i detached a shoulder clip. Nothing happened. The waste belt and other shoulder strap kept everything in place without any issue.

However I wasn't scootering and dragging two spare scooters and five deco tanks.

On my rig I could use a double ender bolt snap to replace a clip should it break. I also carry cable ties on every dive.

So in truth there is no reason not to have a break in the harness. The reasons put forward in JJs comments above may be relevent for siad scooter towing 6 tank push dive but not for the diving i do. The Inspiration CCR has a shed load of plastic clips on it and thats done more deep dives carrying more cylinders that just about any OC rig out there.

HOWEVER

Clips do get broken on the boat. Tanks land on them people tread on them and most common of all you put your own rig on them. This could mean the end of diving for the day/week. I use threaded clips (not stitched in ones) and i carry a spare. A one piece harness would just avoid this problem.

Its also much cheaper and looks great.

I would have carried on using my one piece but I couldn't get the balance right with it. Loos enough to get it on I found the equipment flopped about on my back and i hate that. I went back to my old harness because its adjustable in use. I still prefer the clean lines of the one piece but it just didn't work for me.

ATB

Mark

[Mal Bridgeman]

Having a clip, in my view, is unnecessary, and the reasons given by the skipper are not convincing to me. As Andy says a big knife sorts the problem .... or failing that a pair of trauma shears.

I mainly shore and boat dive where the break is not required at all ..... but when I have dived both singles and doubles off ribs, I have had no problem getting myself out of the rig.... so it's not a problem when conscious .... .

I think it would have been a more interesting debate if the skipper had asked how he could best get an unconscious diver out of his kit with a OPH than expressing the kind of opinion he did....

Mal

[Sipadan]

i'm about to put a break in my harness. i have been diving one piece for two years and like it for all the reasons mark points out. however, with dry glove rings, it's a struggle to get out of it in the water (rib diving) and aside from safety issues, that's just embarrassing

[Mark Chase]

Whats an OPH?

Any one who thinks a knife or trauma shears make light work of wet webbing should take a bit of webbing into the water and have a go. I baught a big serated comercial divers knife to dive with after leaning a valuble lesson having eventualy cut my self free with my little torch mounted one.

Then there is the issue of dropping the knife or trauma shears. Especialy the silly little tooth pics some divers use

Incredably some cold water divers dont use lanyards on their knives

ATB

Mark