DIR - WHY?

[Depth-junkie]

Originally Posted by Garf

so what makes you think they were DIR?

Because they had 5 bottles hanging off em to do a 27m dive LOL




ATB
Gareth

[steveharriss]

All stages marked with gas mixture. goodman handled Halcyon lights, jet fins, DUI drysuits, long hose configuration, hoods and gloves in 24 degree water...... that's a non exhaustive list but I think you can see where I may have formed an opinion from?

You are correct in pointing out that I cannot possibly know that these are highly trained DIR acolytes, rather than DIR wannabes . Their finning techniques, trim, and buoyancy would indicate some enhanced degree of training however...... as long as you overlooked the damage to the coral!

I have already received a PM in relation to this post and it would appear some of you think I am attacking the concept of DIR itself. RTFP please. I think you'll find that I am taking issue with two specific divers at a specific location where the kit used was unnecessary IMHO.

[Garf]

All stages marked with gas mixture. goodman handled Halcyon lights, jet fins, DUI drysuits, long hose configuration, hoods and gloves in 24 degree water...... that's a non exhaustive list but I think you can see where I may have formed an opinion from?

nope, looks to me like you made a judgement based on a list of kit, rather than the actual system they were using. DIR is more about diving procedures and team than kit. Doesn't sound like they were DIR to me.

Originally Posted by steveharriss

I have already received a PM in relation to this post and it would appear some of you think I am attacking the concept of DIR itself. RTFP please. I think you'll find that I am taking issue with two specific divers at a specific location where the kit used was unnecessary IMHO.

oh come on, you responded to the question of "WHY DIR" with this...

So you can dive the Ghiannis D with two thirds of your team and look really cool in your twinset, two stag....

you weren't criticising two divers, you were making an assumption about them based on their kit and them criticising the system you had assumed they were using in the DIR forum! I'm not remotely surprised someone has pmd you!

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by Garf

spoken like someone who'se never done a course with Mark Powell, who doesn't actually "fail" many people, but quite reguarly wants the students to go away and work on their skills, and come back to be re-evaluated before issuinig their certification.

Don't get trapped into thinking DIR has all the answers, or is a better system than all the others out there. Adopting any system means some element of compromise, and DIR is no different. In fact, perhaps more than any system, DIR is ALL about compromise, in that you must accept the fact that the system is not ideal for every scenario, and for each scenario there may be better unique options, but there is value in having a standard in itself you can apply to every situation. For some it is ideal, for others less so, but the value is in it always being the same, familiar, comfortable system

Very, very wise words there, Garf - I couldn't agree more. The 'Fundamentalists' need to wind it in occasionally and realise that much of what GUE offer isn't unique in technical training...

I guess the problem is that there are those that are attracted to DIR through sites like this that have no prior exposure to any form of diver training other than that they received from a recreational agency. Now we all know that there are recreational dive instructors out there that will pretty much award a certification just for turning up and they therefore assume that other 'lesser' (sic) technical training agencies must follow the same trend. In my experience, this couldn't be further from the truth - after all, the motto of most tech instructors is 'training is purchased, certification is awarded'.

What this basically means is that a student doesn't pay to be certified for a given course - they pay for an instructors time and if, during that time, they achieve the neccessary standard then certification will be awarded. If they don't then they'll be told one of two things - go away and practice (and we'll meet up at a later date to assess whether you've met the neccessary standard) or 'never darken my door again - your a bleedin' danger mate'. Trust me, the latter is always a possibility if you're *that* bad! lol

I've worked with a number of technical instructors over the years and I have seen students fail courses first hand. Although it's rare - most instructors would much rather encourage you to improve than to fail - there has been the odd occasion where a student was just a danger to themselves and others around them. In this respect, technical training from other agencies is no different from what you'd receive from a GUE instructor.

[piling pete]

As I hope I made plane in my earlier post I am coming from a fundiy /starting level and as such cannot comment on the more tech stuff as I said the further on the training the better it seems to get across all the agencies .My comments were about the beginning of the training .Across the agencies I have come in to contact with.

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by Garf

so what makes you think they were DIR?

Don't want to sound negative or anything....... But it just read that you greatly doubt that a DIR diver could do such a thing as kick a coral.......

I have learnt that if they look DIR, swimm DIR, claim to be DIR then they are DIR. (also looking and swimming DIR both qualify claim)

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly

I have learnt that if they look DIR, swimm DIR, claim to be DIR then they are DIR. (also looking and swimming DIR both qualify claim)

I would say that if they look DIR, swimm DIR (sic), claim to be DIR, then they are often interpreted as DIR.


But this does not make them DIR

[MartyC]

Gents,
People make mistakes, whether they were DIR or not, chill out
As for too much kit, they may have been trying to gain experience with additional stages etc, hence a perfectly valid reason for diving the configuration.
If I choose to take a stage on a dive that doesn't need it (theoreticaly), it's my choice and AFAIC it's non of anyones business why I take what I take.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Garf & Jason .... I agree with what you have said about there being really good quality training available from a number of sources other than GUE....I don't think anyone would dispute that.

I think we would also all agree that the quality of instruction available is much more variable than with GUE, though.

For me, one thing that even the best of the non-DIR Instructors don't have, is a team based system (inc. kit, procedure & protocols) to train to and grow the diver systemically.

They tend to work with what the student arrives with ..... e.g. inverts, bungee wings etc. [1]

It is a different approach to DIR and GUE where you get trained in the "system" and it's that which provides the "Shake hands, go diving" ability regardless of which instructor trained you, which the other approaches can't.

Mal

[1] I recognise some see that as a strength .... but I don't .

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by Garf

I would say that if they look DIR, swimm DIR (sic), claim to be DIR, then they are often interpreted as DIR.


But this does not make them DIR

No of course it dose not make them DIR and yes of course it can be interpreted as DIR.