DIR - WHY?

[Woz]

Q: what's got 2 legs and bleeds?
A: half a dog

[Buoyant Babe]

Q: What's red, white and checked?
A: Rupert the Fridge.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by JamieG

Just a genuine question as I'm wondering what is it about DIR that attracted you to the system and what is it that made you stay with it?

When I stopped diving a few years back DIR was still pretty much a 'fringe' thing but now I've returned I notice its very popular and pretty mainstream.

I like the non clutter approach and I'm glad I am starting from scratch kit wise (I used to have some right old tat) Don't think the DIR thing is me but I certianly like some of ideas (From what I have read - not seen a DIR diver in the flesh) Like Jet fins, wings and fitness.

Like I say what is it that makes you a DIR diver?

So you seems to have asked a couple of things there.

I think it is stretching the Internet popularity too far to suggest it's mainstream but the more the ideas are being discussed and adopted, the better AFAIAC. If you ever get the chance to talk to the top guys at GUE you will soon realise their altruistic nature towards diving safety is genuine. Of course they would like people to take GUE training but the organisation is not set up to scale to the mass market in the way other agencies have done. GUE Instructors have to go diving for their own ends as a for instance.

So the fact that more poeple are discussing it in the context of dive safety then I think that can only be a good thing.

I had been diving for about 13years before I even heard of GUE or DIR. When I started diving regularly in this country I knew I needed more than I had from all those warmwater dives I had done. So I started with the DIR/Hogarthian kit config, learned off 'tinternet.

Did a TDI course which increased my confidence and ability and gave me more of a taste for the UK.

By taking this route, though, I completely missed the bit about teamwork and procedures which set GUE apart.

I then went diving with some GUE trained divers who impressed me no end with their procedures, their comms, their awareness, precision in buoyancy and trim. I then did a trimix course with Al & Clare of this parish which showed me more of what I was missing.

A year later I did fundamentals then a bit later did Cave 1 and will do Tech 1 soon. Given I was really sold on the system from early on, I think I would have progressed quicker, had I gone for Fundamentals earlier.

As to what makes a DIR diver.....well..... lots of people have the kit config, a lot have procedures, I think the thing which sets them GUE trained divers apart is the "known quantity" aspect. Rich Walker has this phrase "Shake hands, go diving" which was recently very well illustrated at the Discover DIR day I ran at Stoney.

Having demonstrated some skills to the "Discoverees" I indicated to NeilH that we would do an S drill.....which we then did. On the surface debrief Neil explained that was the very first time he and I had dived together and yet there we were, demoing skills. One of the guys said "It looked like you had practiced it 100's of times". Thing is, we had....just never together This translates into ocean diving too ..... I have done some deeper dives with guys I met properly for the first time on a boat .... I would never have done that without the confidence of knowing how they dived and confident of how they would react to a given situation. Knowing that your buddies are working hard to stay in contact with you so there's no stress as you are with them, ready to donate gas if you need it, as you are with them, running and modifying the dive plan in their heads as you are for them etc etc etc. [1]

That's very powerful I think, and as my diving has gone deeper and my awareness of the need for better skills and procedures has increased, I have found the GUE approach to training fits the bill perfectly.

Not only do the Instructors require you to perform the skills, drills and procedures with "finesse", they require you to enjoy what you are doing as well......that's pretty unique in my experience.

HTH
Mal

[1] Not sure why I always end up sending up the dSMB though

[Buoyant Babe]

Superb post Mal.

[Depth-junkie]

Originally Posted by Howard Payne

Must be an old pic Gaz - there's a bailout bottle in it. Or were you holding Steve's while he took the picture?

No pic is recent from some dives in November last yr in some redsea caves @ 90m.

The bailout was required to fit in with the dive centre's guide lines.
Some times you just have to go with the flow and do wot u must do.


ATB
Gareth

P.S off to Dahab next month for some nice sub 100m stuff, no bailout requied there so happy days for the junkie as we all know what a waste of time them big bottles r

[Howard Payne]

You take care fella - have fun Any more news on RG?

[Al_Star]

Originally Posted by Woz

If you chat to JJ/Casey you'll find out about the background behind it and it makes alot of sense. When you are pouring a load of time and money into pushing caves and you sit down and work out that the 14 grand you 've just pi$$ed up the wall on a diving weekend (without actually going diving) is mainly due to kit and training failures then you can see why they developed a "standard" for their teams to stick to. Makes perfect sense. Then they've developed it into a commercial enterprise to make some coin. Good for them.

Many other teams have done the same but not gone down the commercial route. I'm sure if Kevin Gurr wanted to, he'd do a DIK system.

Woz - I have to correct you on this. GUE is a non-profit organisation and as JJ explained at his LIDS talk it is amazing successful. It loses money every single year i.e. no profit

The motives behind GUE are very much based around wanting to set some standards that the founders and current instructors believe is appropriate. GUE believe their instructors should receive fair reward for their time and training and do not wish to join the industry in its devaluation of dive training. This does not translate into GUE making money. Becoming a GUE instructor is damn difficult and there is no crossover mechanism. Fred Devos who is a massively experienced cave instructor and has thousands of kilometres of cave to his name has had to start at the bottom and work his way up.

Another example is the planned open water course - its 9 days long and will cost probably 4 times what you average PADI class would. Why - well because it will turn out a diver qualified to 30m with nitrox, rescue and very solid diving skills. Again its not because it will make money - it's about setting out what GUE believe is appropriate.

I chose GUE training because it was the most difficult training and held its students to the highest standards. The ocean or cave does not become more benign because I hold a card that says I'm qualified - it becomes more manageable based on solid training and with experience.

If you take the agency out of it most people would agree that good training by experienced instructors and the need to build your skills is essential. GUE just insists upon it.

Cheers
Al

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

Woz - I have to correct you on this. GUE is a non-profit organisation and as JJ explained at his LIDS talk it is amazing successful. It loses money every single year i.e. no profit

The motives behind GUE are very much based around wanting to set some standards that the founders and current instructors believe is appropriate. GUE believe their instructors should receive fair reward for their time and training and do not wish to join the industry in its devaluation of dive training. This does not translate into GUE making money. Becoming a GUE instructor is damn difficult and there is no crossover mechanism. Fred Devos who is a massively experienced cave instructor and has thousands of kilometres of cave to his name has had to start at the bottom and work his way up.

Another example is the planned open water course - its 9 days long and will cost probably 4 times what you average PADI class would. Why - well because it will turn out a diver qualified to 30m with nitrox, rescue and very solid diving skills. Again its not because it will make money - it's about setting out what GUE believe is appropriate.

I chose GUE training because it was the most difficult training and held its students to the highest standards. The ocean or cave does not become more benign because I hold a card that says I'm qualified - it becomes more manageable based on solid training and with experience.

If you take the agency out of it most people would agree that good training by experienced instructors and the need to build your skills is essential. GUE just insists upon it.
Cheers
Al

that sums it up nicely for me.

[big_si]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

Another example is the planned open water course - its 9 days long and will cost probably 4 times what you average PADI class would. Why - well because it will turn out a diver qualified to 30m with nitrox, rescue and very solid diving skills. Again its not because it will make money - it's about setting out what GUE believe is appropriate.

That sounds interesting Al. Is that planned as an entry level course? Or is it designed as a fundamentals precursor after already being in the water for a few dives?

If it's an entry level course then 4 times the cost of a PADI course (which must put it in the region of £1200???) must make the cost quite prohibitive to most divers-to-be who at that stage don't even know if they like it?

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by big_si

That sounds interesting Al. Is that planned as an entry level course? Or is it designed as a fundamentals precursor after already being in the water for a few dives?

If it's an entry level course then 4 times the cost of a PADI course (which must put it in the region of £1200???) must make the cost quite prohibitive to most divers-to-be who at that stage don't even know if they like it?

My understanding is that it is designed as an entry level course designed to take a non-diver to the 30m Rescue standard that Al described.

As far as I can make out, it sets out what GUE believes is required to train a diver to be safe and competent in those depth ranges. Of course, not everyone learns at the same rate and I suspect there will be a number of people who don't pass, even after that expense, but a well constructed curriculum with a competent Instructor should be able to get the majority to the required standard I think. I don't know what the approach is to "remedial" training.

I am sure it will not be a commercial success .... the industry seems to believe that Instructing should be a vocation and that a couple of hours in the pool with a couple more in the open water, suffices for new divers.

My own view, given that the diving tenure of most divers about 2 years, is they don't have the core skills sufficiently nailed early enough to allow them to enjoy their diving and progress it in a safe way....so once they have completed a number of diving courses under the watchful eye of an Instructor, they find something lacking and, sadly, they drop out and go and do something different.

The entry level training bar is set very low IMO, but if your main role in life is to sell training courses then the current regime seem to suit. If your role was to create life long safe enthusiastic divers then I think you would approach it differently.

Mal