DIR - WHY?

[thehappychappy]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

I agree .... only there isn't a formal "6m bimble with DM" certificate, it's 18m from the outset with 30m a dive or two later.....

Mal, Thats not exactly, True, PADI have an entry level certification "PADI SCUBA DIVER", the qualified scuba diver then has to be buddied with a PADI PRO (Renewed DM or above) and are depth limited to (checks Standards quickly) 12 Metres.

I DM'd on a couple of these courses last summer.

[the_negligent_snail]

Originally Posted by thehappychappy

Mal, Thats not exactly, True, PADI have an entry level certification "PADI SCUBA DIVER", the qualified scuba diver then has to be buddied with a PADI PRO (Renewed DM or above) and are depth limited to (checks Standards quickly) 12 Metres.

I DM'd on a couple of these courses last summer.

YEs, but this course is for those who cant, for some reason, qualify as OW. Generally speaking, OW is the starting point and five dives later AOW!

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by telsa

I'm not a DIR diver. I have noticed of the few that I know that all their kit is generally of the same type and configured the same way.
So I was wondering, do individual divers have the freedom to use what they wish and configure it as they like once qualified?
I guess it might defeat the object of it all but I'm just curious.

Rob

Before anyone is qualified, they are already convinced they need to have standardized kit. So that is a kind of tough question.

Bob Sherwood would tell me "Ok Ahmed, we are going to change ONE THING each day till you change your gear" Since that week (odd 150 trimix dives later), I have changed NOTHING on my kit because I just don't need to.
But changing me was not that simple, seeing that JJ had to give me a wing, David Rhea gave me fins and I swiped a pair of X-Shorts off Andrew G

It was a bit different for me though because I had been doing hundreds of deco dives per season and I suppose I was used to my ratty equipme nt by then.
BUT, I did leave a brass bolt snap on my SPG just to keep the mental bridge open You guys could not believe how personally I take my kit.

I am pretty sure though, that you will find little if no need to change the configuration. That is perfect, no questions asked.

[thehappychappy]

WHY DIR?


Not being GUE qualified as yet I cant say I am a DIR Diver, I am curious enough about the whole holistic approach to diving, to try it out.

I like process, I like formal understanding and agreement, I like structure, I like standards, I like team work, knowing somebody has my back, these things all appeal enough to me to make me want to try it.

What Sparked my Interest?

Have you seen all those cave trip reports and videos? wow, just wow!

Yes I know you can do cave diving without being DIR however, it goes back to my previous statements about structure, understanding and team ethos.

Where do I see my issues with DIR?

I only know of two other GUE Certified divers within my local area, last year I knew of none, I see my biggest issue is going to be able to operate as a team when diving locally, so I may struggle to reach higher and hone any skills I learn, however I am used to commuting, I work in Bristol, I live in Hamilton, My Kids are in Cumbernauld, My mates are in Glasgow and my last relationship was with a girl near St Andrews.

Travelling to dive, well thats going to be easy

Oh I dont see DIR as taking over my diving, I see it as a tool to use.
Im also working my way down(up?) the PADI PRO Route and I see that as just another tool.

[Ahmed Adly]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

I agree .... only there isn't a formal "6m bimble with DM" certificate, it's 18m from the outset with 30m a dive or two later.....

Yes, and I have dived with all 1000+ people whom I had the pleasure of teaching. They didn't drag me to the bottom screaming.
Mal, diving is not all THAT dangerous to start with.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by telsa

I'm not a DIR diver. I have noticed of the few that I know that all their kit is generally of the same type and configured the same way.
So I was wondering, do individual divers have the freedom to use what they wish and configure it as they like once qualified?
I guess it might defeat the object of it all but I'm just curious.

Rob

Hi Rob,

I think you have answered your own question there

There are no dive police so you can do what you want .... but if you see value and strength in the system, why would you want to weaken it by implementing your own personal "improvements".

That said, the system does evolve, so things do change .... a project might require a specific change or enhancement but the DIR diver does it from a team perspective.... not on an individual level.

Individuals get loads of choice though ... like what colour overlay to have on their DUI TLS350, or what colour to have your deco cylinders, or what make of hood you have or ...... only kidding

Although the popular view is of a bunch of automatons, it's really not like that. Why not come to one of the Discover DIR days if you are interested in finding out a bit more. All who have come to the ones I have done seem to have enjoyed the day out.

Mal

[thehappychappy]

Originally Posted by the_negligent_snail

YEs, but this course is for those who cant, for some reason, qualify as OW. Generally speaking, OW is the starting point and five dives later AOW!

I disagree, Scuba diver is a qualification itself and a very good entry level as it limits depth and ensures that the newly certified diver has an experienced* buddy.

On average your right OW is generally the starting point, however the OW course still has many more qualifications issued than the AOW course.

I guided an OW diver last summer who had in excess of 100 dives, (that's more than some of the other DMT's had)

I have a mate who qualified as OW last year and has now done 18 dives to that level.




* by experienced in this instance I mean a PADI DM (lets not get into that one here)

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by thehappychappy

....
I dont see DIR as taking over my diving, I see it as a tool to use.
...l.

I think that is the right approach. Team based diving is great and I think the fact everyone is looking after each other's safety is a really superb way to dive. However, that team depends on like minded folk and as you rightly say they are not always available.

I still fancy the GUE-F (or DIR-F as it used to be) just to get my skills properly honed. When both the missus and me have the kit/time/money we will do it. I don't ever plan to be fully DIR.

Chris

[Woz]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

Woz - I have to correct you on this. GUE is a non-profit organisation and as JJ explained at his LIDS talk it is amazing successful. It loses money every single year i.e. no profit

The motives behind GUE are very much based around wanting to set some standards that the founders and current instructors believe is appropriate. GUE believe their instructors should receive fair reward for their time and training and do not wish to join the industry in its devaluation of dive training. This does not translate into GUE making money. Becoming a GUE instructor is damn difficult and there is no crossover mechanism. Fred Devos who is a massively experienced cave instructor and has thousands of kilometres of cave to his name has had to start at the bottom and work his way up.

Another example is the planned open water course - its 9 days long and will cost probably 4 times what you average PADI class would. Why - well because it will turn out a diver qualified to 30m with nitrox, rescue and very solid diving skills. Again its not because it will make money - it's about setting out what GUE believe is appropriate.

I chose GUE training because it was the most difficult training and held its students to the highest standards. The ocean or cave does not become more benign because I hold a card that says I'm qualified - it becomes more manageable based on solid training and with experience.

If you take the agency out of it most people would agree that good training by experienced instructors and the need to build your skills is essential. GUE just insists upon it.

Cheers
Al

Good points.

A question- the GUE "not for profit" bit- is that just the training or is GUE being used as a financing operation to push the Florida cave systems?

I wouldn't moan if it was as that's the way most people get into the diving "business"- selling tatt (in whatever form) to finance their own diving.

I'd certainly agree with the low bar set with commercial training systems out there- the industry is knocking out OW courses for next to nothing and tipping out poorly trained divers- just sculling gently round Stoney on a weekend will see gaggles of trainees in big groups which can't be effective. The problem is that as a commercial instructor, there will always be some muppet who will do the job for next to nothing just for the free diving. This drives prices down and means you can't spend the time and effort training divers properly.

Taking someone on a week long course and turning out a competent open water diver is a great idea.

We've been doing it in our club for years..... but we take 3 months !

[James The Badger]

Originally Posted by chrisch

I
I still fancy the GUE-F (or DIR-F as it used to be) just to get my skills properly honed. When both the missus and me have the kit/time/money we will do it. I don't ever plan to be fully DIR.

Chris

I think Chris kind of summs up (in a good way ) alot of what the majority of the broader dive community seem to say, that is ' I Like lots of what DIR has to say, but I don't really want to adapot it fully as a system '

My Question is this, what elements of the system don't appeal to people?