DIR Diving not for everyone ?

[daz]

A nagging question that I have put off asking on other forums for fear that it would deteriorate into a slanging match.  Here hoping that this can be answered rationally here.

Given that DIR is a very rigid methodology of diving, this must limit it's ability to be used by specific people within the diving community and specifically people with certain disabilities.

I realise this is true of all agencies and there will always be people who cannot meet the requirements due to disabilities but I would expect this to be more so with DIR.  

Does the DIR organisation have specific guidelines for assessment and training of divers with disabilities.?

Daz

[RobK]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (daz @ Aug. 29 2003,16:13)]A nagging question that I have put off asking on other forums for fear that it would deteriorate into a slanging match.  Here hoping that this can be answered rationally here.

Given that DIR is a very rigid methodology of diving, this must limit it's ability to be used by specific people within the diving community and specifically people with certain disabilities.

I realise this is true of all agencies and there will always be people who cannot meet the requirements due to disabilities but I would expect this to be more so with DIR.  

Does the DIR organisation have specific guidelines for assessment and training of divers with disabilities.?

Daz

Not that I'm aware of. You'd really have to ask someone connected with WKPP/GUE what the official stance is.

Given that DIR is all about team diving, anything that could compromise the safety of the team is unlikely to be accepted.

I think the blunt truth is that from GUE's perspective, some people just shouldn't dive.

[kramynot2000]

I've wondered about this as well, particularly after diving with a paraplegic a couple of weeks ago.  He was an experienced diver and used his arms to propel him quite well.

With the DIR philosophy of staying fit, etc. I wonder how those with disabilities, even minor ones, fit.

Tony

[Mark Davies]

<font color='#000080'>

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (RobK @ Aug. 29 2003,16:26)]I think the blunt truth is that from GUE's perspective, some people just shouldn't dive.

So if you can't dive DIR, you shouldn't dive?

I have a back injury (ruptured disc, L5S1). Now this has little effect on my diving; I need to be careful with heavy kit out of water, but in the water it's of little material difference. One effect it does have is in my flexibility.

I have found that I am unable to reach valves behind my head for a shut-down and so need to invert my tanks. In this configuration it's no problem.

Now I presume this isn't DIR as it breaks the principle that everyones' rigs should be identical.

From what has been said above, am I to take it that the DIR lobby genuinely think that I shouldn't be diving, at all? Or is it only that they shouldn't be diving with me?

[daz]

There are always going to be degrees of disability and each agency will have there own view on who can and can't dive according to their standards, &nbsp;not unreasonably.

However I do question wether an agency can assess someones ability unless they have a policy and procedures for people with disabilities. &nbsp;Unfortunatly the more rigid the system the less scope for change to adapt to individuals physical difficulties.

I guess at least knowledge and information of DIR can still be gained from these types of forums and at least the DIR guys who frequent YD in many cases are happy to talk and dive with those of us who are non DIR for whatever reason.

Daz

[Noel Johnson]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]From what has been said above, am I to take it that the DIR lobby genuinely think that I shouldn't be diving, at all? Or is it only that they shouldn't be diving with me?

Hi Mark,

I'm not an advocate of DIR but I am interested and some of the principles seem to make sense, long hose etc, although I am stumped on the hatred of carabiners - suicide clips as they're referred to in DIR 'cos they're dashed useful things, what. From what I've read on various web-sites and other forums the stance of a DIR diver is purely to not dive with a non-DIR diver (ie, stroke) they don't say you shouldn't dive, it's just that you shouldn't dive with them.

Cheers mate and I hope this helps,

Noel

[Mark Davies]

<font color='#000080'>Thanks, Noel.

I imagined that had to be the case (I couldn't imagine even the most commited DIR devotee would be that draconian). It was just that last line from Rob that raised the question.

So, no DIR for me then! I guess I'll just have to take what I can.

[Dominic]

When I used to read Techdiver, any queries raised about people who were physically incapable of using DIR were dismissed by GI3 as &quot;DIR isn't designed for mutants&quot; - I think he downplays the whole thing as it gets in the way of the &quot;DIR can be used by anyone anywhere&quot; concept...

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] I am stumped on the hatred of carabiners - suicide clips as they're referred to in DIR 'cos they're dashed useful things, what

I wondered about that a few years ago, as I was using quite a few, and couldn't see how they could cause a problem.
Did a post, to UKRS and Dnet, IIRC, asking if any people had ever genuinely suffered an entanglement from the things. First-hand experiences only.
I got a river of replies, including one or two that were potentially life-threatening - eg somebody falling-over fully kitted up on a beach, suicide clip tangled him up and he couldn't get up. If he hadn't had his DV in, he'd have drowned. That was enough for me. I scrapped the lot.
Apart from anything else, they AREN'T a good type of clip - they're lovely and easy to clip onto a D-ring, but can be a right PITA to unclip, which is exactly the wrong way round, IMHO.

[Pierre Farrugia]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hello Daz,

I been wondering about this subject a lot. First a question to all real DIR divers, what happens if you fall down 2 stories and broke your shoulder heavily and now it's impossible to reach valves?, give up diving or adj. your rig to suit you? I broke my shoulder a year ago and now it's impossible to reach my right valve so now I have to use only Single valve twinsets with rule of thirds which is definitly not DIR. I don't like the idea to use manifold twins just to look cool , then when you have a problem you cannot close valves.Like this if I have a problem just abort and go to deco or up. Does this makes me a bad dive? I think no, I like a lot of things from DIR but equipment is just a tool to take you underwater and there are many ways to use it. With my biddies we too use same equipment and config and no carabiners (I had an incident once while training dropped weight belt to get caught in a carabiner I had with lower d ring of BCD)

Hope no one pass from what I passed but hope that this makes some out there think before they can critisise your set up. Also I don't critisise DIR as what works must be good.

Regards

Pierre

[Davey Willo]

Noel

I'm sorry mate but once more someone who doesn't really understand DIR at all is perpetuating comments that THEY heard elsewhere as if it's a statement of fact, unfortunately Mark may end up believing what you said and may then spread the exact same rumours on to others who then also believe it must be true... it's this sort of stuff that turns so many away from DIR

Rule 1: Don't dive with strokes

Definition of a stroke is 'An unsafe diver or a diver with an unsafe attitude'

I've said this before and I'll say it again here.. as far as I'm concerned you can turn up to dive with me, clenching your pony bottle between the cheeks of your arse and yet as long as you're an attentive buddy with good inwater skills with the ability to be there for me should I get into trouble then we'll dive together.... should you turn up all DIR kitted but It's known that you are a dangerous buddy concerned only with your own dive, the sort of guy who might not notice when I'm in trouble then I wouldn't want to dive with you.

(The anti DIR lobby would argue this point and tell you that I wouldn't dive with you because you weren't DIR but that's simply because it's an invaluable weapon for putting people off DIR)

Out of all of my friends and buddy's only two are DIR but I dive with all of them and always will.

If you speak to Bob Cooper, Wetlettuce and all of the other DIR guys on here then I'm fairly sure you'll find that they have the same opinion that I do....

Best regards
Dave.