FFM

[Doug Parker]

While we are on the subject of looking like a pratt (Ben, helmets) what does the DIR fraternity think of full face masks and what problems are you likely to encounter with them.  I assume they're not on every DIR divers Christmas list because of long hose deployment but that's the only thing i can see wrong with them.

[Bob Cooper]

There are plenty of things "wrong" with full face masks for our sort of diving. Ask yourself, why do I need one?  Then ask if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

Disadvantages are:
1. You can't help an OOG buddy
2. If you are OOG, how can your buddy help you?
3. CO2 retention (and all the problems associated with that)
4. Excessive usage/wastage of gas
5. When stage diving, how do you handle your gas switches?
6. Stage bottle marking/identification/protocol goes out of the window with a FFM
7. You can't share gas in all situations with a FFM
8. They're expensive
9. If you have a problem with one on a boat, you are unlikely to find spares/backup nearby
10. Configuration/hose routing/ backup regulator/ mask?

Advantages are
1. Errrrm.......I can't think of one

QED!

[Ben Harris]

<font color='#8D38C9'>communications?

OOG, what are u or abuddy doing running out of air.

U can get block switchers for multi gas config.

Com divers use them all the time on dives alot deeper than we do, they think there safe.

Expensive, fair enough,

Use alot of gas too.

Ben

Would look good with my helmet though:O

[jasondrake]

advantages? Well all navy dives and industry commercial dives use em. Total protection from drowning? (the end-game for all fatal diving incidents) Warmth? Commercial ice divers use em. Ox tox is much less scary when rebreathing. Gas switching - use a block, or a mask with up to three 2nd stage ports. OOA - pull it off and stick your reg in your gob(done it many, many times). Buddy ooa - stick your reg in his mouth. CO2? Doesn't seem to slow down the navy clearance divers, or police divers, or sar divers, or combat swimmers, or commercial divers... But yea, on balance they're a pain in the arse. And a bit uncomfortable on the boat. And they get a bit rough after a long dive with all the gob and snot. And they are expensive, and don't always fit very well.

[Ben Harris]

<font color='#8D38C9'>there has never been enough discussion on the merits of in warter comm system, fair enough there are cost and tech limiting factors but...

[Doug Parker]

I was only planning on using it for the silly dives (-30m) during the winter. &nbsp;I wouldn't be happy with a switching block during multi gas dives, 4 cylinders, 2 regs does sound like a recipe for disaster and hose routing/occy could be a problem for a buddy.

[Finless]

I regularly dive with a FFM (Ocean Reef). I do deco diving - 2 mix and plan on doing normoxic trimix soon. My deepest dive in the FFM was 48 mtrs on the Lan Franc on the way back from a diving trip to Normandy.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]There are plenty of things &quot;wrong&quot; with full face masks for our sort of diving. Ask yourself, why do I need one?  Then ask if the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

Advantages of an FFM - warm, no loss of breathing environment if convulsing, no pollution, no jaw ache, comms, no facial stings, no snotty mask (can breath through nose) - I will think of the others later.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] Disadvantages are:
1. You can't help an OOG buddy

I have octo regs on all cylinders - lots of help available.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]2. If you are OOG, how can your buddy help you?

By donating his octo reg - we practise bailout routines.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]3. CO2 retention (and all the problems associated with that)

Air flow in the FFM is designed to prevent this problem - I have not noticed any problems over the last 3 years.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]4. Excessive usage/wastage of gas

Maybe - I  have not used other masks but not a problem with mine.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]5. When stage diving, how do you handle your gas switches?

Gas switching block.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]6. Stage bottle marking/identification/protocol goes out of the window with a FFM

Why?

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]7. You can't share gas in all situations with a FFM

Why? [EDIT] Rather, I can't think of such a situation.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]8. They're expensive

Yes - but not that bad - abt £350 for the Ocean Reef which incs an integrated reg.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]9. If you have a problem with one on a boat, you are unlikely to find spares/backup nearby.

We all carry a backup mask in case of bail out so we do the dive the same as the rest of you with a normal mask.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]10. Configuration/hose routing/ backup regulator/ mask?

I agree the first two are a problem. Backup reg is no diff from normal. Also, if you wish, there is a port to have a backup reg in the FFM.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Advantages are
1. Errrrm.......I can't think of one

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier reply at the top of the page. Oh, the other one I couldn't think of is your mask will NOT get knocked off by someones fins.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]QED!

Not for me - I am so happy with my FFM that I could hug it and squeeze it and kiss it and cuddle it and .... er, I'll stop there.

I honestly would not go back to diving in a normal mask out of choice.

[Mdemon]

I've wanted a FFM for ages - comms being the decider for me. &nbsp;The ox tox angle is also there.

Bit pricey though. &nbsp;I heard that you can mod the breathing apparatus the Firemen use - anyone tried it?

Further question - do you need to get a special hood?

[Finless]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Mdemon @ Oct. 13 2003,21:31)]I've wanted a FFM for ages - comms being the decider for me.  The ox tox angle is also there.

Bit pricey though.  I heard that you can mod the breathing apparatus the Firemen use - anyone tried it?

Further question - do you need to get a special hood?

As I understand it the Kirby Morgans have a hood designed to work with them.

For my hood I got one made for £27 - it has a smooth skin on the outside and extra material around the face so I can seat the FFM straight onto the hood easily.

I would try one out first before you buy one - if you can. If you are near Hastings you are welcome to try mine at a pool night. Alternatively I have read that BSAC do a FFM familiarisation course where you get to try different makes of FFM. I am thinking of doing it myself as I really want to try the KM EXO mask.

Oh, I have no idea about the doing a mod to fireman's helmet, sorry, mask.

[Andy the Coastie]

<font color='#0000FF'>1. You can't help an OOG buddy
Most people i know that have FFM are normally SOLO divers, I have a quick adapter on my kit, same as the air lines on a artic lorry &amp; so does my buddy.
2. If you are OOG, how can your buddy help you?
I use my quick release airline and plug into his spare socket.
3. CO2 retention (and all the problems associated with that)
Never had any problems with my AGA.
4. Excessive usage/wastage of gas
Utter rubbish
5. When stage diving, how do you handle your gas switches?
Each of my first stages have a lenght of pipe with a quick release adapter , just unplug and swap to next gas supply.
6. Stage bottle marking/identification/protocol goes out of the window with a FFM
never had a problem with indie twins and pony for deco gas .
7. You can't share gas in all situations with a FFM.
True , but would i need to ?
8. They're expensive
To buy yes, but no more than keeping to replace masks.
9. If you have a problem with one on a boat, you are unlikely to find spares/backup nearby
Thats why i have a good spares box, and at this time could make 2 complete working units .
10. Configuration/hose routing/ backup regulator/ mask

AGA with omi swivel with a normal lenght pipe.
pipe work from 2nd stage route down cylinder to waist band.


its easy if you have a play to make them simple, and saves on a stupid switching block.



Andy