Illegal dive charter boats?

[Angleseyskipper]

Would you know whether you're on one?

[Helen F H]

Nope.

[pearldiver]

Go on, enlighten us? What evidence should we be looking for or asking for, and what are the perils if the boat is unlicenced?
Barbara

[Andy the Coastie]

legal dive charter boats

1. Skipper is the one moaning about how much money he has lost this year due to weather.
2. Provides hot drinks and a friendly smile.
3. Displays his coloured charter boat diamond and vessels radio license.
4. Has all his safety equipment ' Ticketed and in date '.



Illegal dive charter boats

1. Skipper is the one moaning that he has only been out 5 times this week.
2. Provides only a smile wishing he can take more money off you as he is saving on not giving you any hot drinks.
3. Has no room to displays coloured charter boat diamond and vessels radio license.
4. May carry some safety equipment.
5. Places adverts that VIZ in his area is over 10 mts, to get more divers on his boat.
6. Goes out in gale force 8's, gets you in the water.

[tom]

Originally Posted by Andy the Commie 2

5. Places adverts that VIZ in his area is over 10 mts

Is that DOVER viz or REAL viz Andy?

[Angleseyskipper]

I was hoping for some constructive answers from divers who have thought about it, but ol Andy's touched on most of the points, the cheat.

Seriously though, this is still a big problem in this country, and to use one of brens classic quotes, you've more chance of finding a "china man with a naturally occuring ginger affro" than being caught and prosecuted for running an illegal charter boat of any kind.

In the area we operate here, we've had a couple have a go this year but all they usually get is a slap on the wrist don't do it again approach.

Andy's highlighted the coloured diamond, which is displayed on a legal boat and should be in date.

The biggest problem we've had round here this year is that the actual skippers don't have the commercial qualifications to run 'em. There's been about 5 around here to date been told to stop operating till it's sorted.

You need to have a commercially endorsed licence to operate a charter boat which you're suppose to carry on board, or a copy of it. This can be anything from RYA yachtmaster offshore down to a power boat level 2.

It's like a small passport type thing with your picture and level of qualification on it and stamped 'commercial endorsed for use on code of practice vessels'.

Anyone who's legal will happily show you it cos its no big deal.

As for pearl diver's question, being on an unlicensed boat is a big peril cos any insurance cover will be null and void which means if the shit hits the fan, ya'd better take cover!

And as Andy points out, will usually be well short of saftey gear cos they're doing it on the cheap but charging you top dollar.

Something to think about next time you climb aboard somewhere.

[David Wallace]

charter skippers....

Not all coded vessels carry the so called diamond shape code sticker - If the RYA is your certification agency - they have never done a diamond and with the new harmonised code all the stickers will soon become like a car TAX disc. So please dont get all the divers looking for something that does not exist on every legal boat

All............................

re qualifications - commercial endorsements go hand in hand with the boats coded area if the boat is coded for eg area 2 - thats 60 miles from safe haven day or night the skipper needs a yachtmaster offshore commercially endorsed licence. and if they are operating just a few miles from shore in daylight they cannot put a lesser qualified person in charge claiming they were operating in area code 4 unless the boat has been specifically duel coded for both area 2 and 4 (area 4 only requiring a coastal certificate with commercial endorsement)

One big area to look for - any commercial charter operating more than 20 miles from safe haven up to 60 miles or at night in any circumstances MUST yes MUST have a crew member on board at all times (ie not in the water diving) that crew member must be deemed to be of suitable qualification by the skipper - basically someone who could get you home if the skipper fell ill. How many do you know who dont do that?

Another area which has come under the MCA scrutiny - Clubs....... dont get uptight we all know that members clubs are exempt from most the regulations. What they are looking at, and the harmonised code (which is waiting for the SI to go through parliment any day now) will address , is the Propriotors clubs. Thats basically where a business or individual owns the vessel rather than the entire members as is the case in most bsac clubs. A propriotors club will have to abide by all of the regulations for the first time. So if you know of any shops / individuals where the boat is being used as a club and doesnt bother with the qualifications and safety equipment.... watch this space because they wont be operating much longer I have a list of 5 of them which operate from time to time in this area - I am happy to say I have given this to the MCA allready

The simple thing is to get all the divers who use a boat for the first time to ask to see a copy of

a current boat certificate
a current commercial licence
a current insurance certificate

Ask when you get on and if they cant produce them - get off and dive elsewhere oh and while we are on the subject of getting off.... if you dont get a boat safety brief before going to sea - ask for one - if the skipper cant tell you where everything is and how to use them in the calm confines of the harbour get off now because hes going to be no use when you need them

[Angleseyskipper]

sorry didn't know RYA did boat surveys as far as i was aware every legal boat had a diamond purely for the punters to look at ,failing that a copy of ya SCV
as for the harmonisation of the code don't hold your breath its been going on for donkeys.

i agree with you totally that you should have the quals to match the range of the vessel but this is'nt the way it is in practice with many people in this area working on a lesser qualification compared to the boat ,having been inspected and passed by the MCA
as for the old hiding behind the club thing that still exists and there nothing you or i can do about it.
the new "club code" is an absolute joke it was surpose to close this ol loop hole that existed.
one of the local skipper here's wife is an MCA surveyour for code boats so we get an idea of whats going on and not a lot has changed
i take it skipper your a member of the NFCS etc this is all usual rant material.

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by yellow butty box

sorry didn't know RYA did boat surveys as far as i was aware every legal boat had a diamond purely for the punters to look at ,failing that a copy of ya SCV

Errr.... I have never had a diamond and my boats legal

Originally Posted by yellow butty box

as for the harmonisation of the code don't hold your breath its been going on for donkeys.

The SI for the harmonised code is supposed to be before Parliment now, but no - i'm not holding my breath

Originally Posted by yellow butty box

i agree with you totally that you should have the quals to match the range of the vessel but this is'nt the way it is in practice with many people in this area working on a lesser qualification compared to the boat ,having been inspected and passed by the MCA

Why not just report them to the MCA and continue to do so until something is done?

Originally Posted by yellow butty box

as for the old hiding behind the club thing that still exists and there nothing you or i can do about it.
the new "club code" is an absolute joke it was surpose to close this ol loop hole that existed.
one of the local skipper here's wife is an MCA surveyour for code boats so we get an idea of whats going on and not a lot has changed

I have heard this before and having read the final draft of the code I dont understand why people are saying its a joke? except of course that its all down to enforcement and whos going to do that? whats your take on the situation?

Originally Posted by yellow butty box

i take it skipper your a member of the NFCS etc this is all usual rant material.

Used to be because I thought that they were actually being effective, stopped because I no longer see any effective action. anyway, if there is, they are not communicating their sucess to the members - seems that they write a few very articulate letters though Lets face it, in the last 12 months they have not made any changes to the members website and its about 1/4 complete. to me that says a lot about any organisation!

[Andy the Coastie]

A mate of mine e:mailed me this



Anglers more clued up?

My husband runs a licensed charter vessel and takes parties of up to 10 sea anglers and divers out around Oban and the Sound of Mull, on the west coast of Scotland. Some angling clubs make it clear that they will not book with us unless we can satisfy them that we are correctly licensed and that they will be covered by adequate insurance.
They also seem to be on the ball about where to check such details. In our experience, the anglers also understand that what is included in the charter cost reflects the required standards of safety.
Dive clubs more often than not do not appear to be as informed or to care about licence standards with guaranteed insurance and safety certificates. Nor do most understand what constitutes a charter - how many divers realise that it is illegal for anyone with a boat without a licence to accept payment, even a few quid for fuel, to carry passengers?
The British Sub-Aqua Club was part of the committee that drafted current licence charter conditions, so I am surprised that some divers appear to be less clued up than anglers!
Elaine Lauder, Benderloch, Oban


made me chuckle