Should there be an O2 set on Dive Charter Boats?

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by RubberBoy

We are agreeing and your take on what is and should happen seems to be exactly the same as mine. The circumstances I mentioned in my PM may be slightly different to charter work but the point I was trying to make was the one above.
Notwithstanding that "in water" activities are excluded from the assessment (and I can see why, I wouldn't want to be responsible for what we get up to!) the point I was trying to get across was that you would still have to fill out at least this "generic" risk assessment for each day. Now on this risk assessment there will be things about bumps and bruises, falling off ladders etc etc so you would carry first aid kit, water blah de blah...
Now one of the large risks "on the boat" is a bend so surely the risk assessment would have to cater for this by specifying O2 to be carried? Not as a legal requirement but as part of the generally accepted risks invloved? Or is it assumed a bend happens "off" the boat so is not covered in the "on boat" risks?
Basically what I am getting at is surely under CoP and other generally accepted practices O2 should be on any boat carrying divers (and as I said before, any dive charter boat I have ever been on apart from wee fishing boats taking a couple of guys out for a few quid in remote areas as a "sidy" had it)

Again we are agreeing except in a small area. lets face it, the number of taxis in london which take pregnant women to hospital .... they dont carry equipment for the possibility of having to give birth in the cab what about heart attacks - verry common cause of death these days in diving - should we all carry defib and be trained to use it?

As I said, the MCA and th HSE looked at my srisk assessments whent I started up, they are revied in like with current best practice and they stop short of anything related to the in water activity.

That said, once again I reiterate - I carry O2 but I do not want to see it legislated. That is the slipery slope to additional legislation where the charter boat will take on more and more responsibility beyond transportation which could have a massive impact on our sport.

regards

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by yellow butty box

on a different note there is a new trend starting to rear its head regarding 02. its called a free snort.
usually follows "had a fast ascent skip i'd better go on 02"
"no problem its ready to go help yourself ", keeping a close eye on things
2 hours later and 1 empty 02 cylinder "whats the next wreck called skip?"
errmm yeah right ring any bells?

No O2 no dive.....

An instructor friend of mine went to work in the US. On many boats there the divemaster calls the shots and sets the BT, max depth and the like after looking at your PIC card. If you overstay or go too deep you get to sit out the next dive....

As mentioned we might start to go that way..

Its the same old story as in anything in life - a few wankers spoil it for everyone by abusing the situation.

Chris

[edward]

I understand all the legal arguments etc, but if I could add the view of someone who books on to boats with my wife as a buddy pair.

I ask when I book what the boat provides. Having O2 is a make or break point for me. i just don't book on to boats without it, as at the moment I can't afford my own O2 kit, and we are not part of a club where I could 'borrow' one. All the other gizmos like lifts, tea and biscuits etc are nice extras, but the O2 is non-negotiable.

And from a personal viewpoint, if I had any kind of incident, I would want the coastgaurd to be called, as the skipper then has access to expert advice which would make me much happier.

If I could cite as an example one boat we use, Mary Jo at Swanage. Martin gives a full brief, shows everyone where the 1st aid kit, life raft and O2 kit is. He carries 15l of O2. Now he probably doesn't have to do half of that, but when the wife and I did our first dive on the Kyarra with him (which was a big deal for us, as we were not that experienced) that gave us a lot of re-assurance that he knew what he was about. He also didn't have a macho attitude at all, let us in the water last so we wern't rushed, and generally was very supportive.

I should say I have no connection with Martin other than as a customer, and I've had similar good service on other boats, such as top gun, wild frontier, morning glory and many others.

So I guess my message is that I 'vote with my feet' (and incidentally my money), so even if skippers don't have to carry O2, then they would certainly not get my trade if they didn't have it.

cheers

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Skipper

carry defib and be trained to use it?

TAURUS does NOW



regards

[MATTBIN]

Dave
I understand your concerns regarding the legislation thing but just because one thing becomes law doesnt mean that its the thin end of the wedge and we will all be in-undated with rules and regs. However it would seem that there is no need as most skippers carry the stuff anyway according to Andy[see edit below]. That being the case I doubt if legislation will come in, this tends to happen as knee jerk reaction after an incident of some sort re: Dunblane, Hungerford etc. If we as divers want to see 02 on-board then we can of course vote with our feet as has been stated. I think that skippers who carry 02 are seen to be responsible and safe skippers and as customers we can of course take our custom where we see fit.

Rgds
Matt

edit
I dont actually know one that does not carry O2, the thread wold serve mor purpose if we established which commercial boats "did not" carry the O2 (I think the list would be quite small)

from Skipper's post earlier.

[tom]

To be honest, I don't think I've yet been on a UK boat that didn't have 02. I think the skippers out there are already doing a pretty good job.

In a competitive business environment where lifts etc are seen as important in attracting customers, not having an 02 kit (something that would discourage at least some people from booking on) would seem pretty daft.

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

Dave
I understand your concerns regarding the legislation thing but just because one thing becomes law doesnt mean that its the thin end of the wedge and we will all be in-undated with rules and regs. However it would seem that there is no need as most skippers carry the stuff anyway according to Andy. That being the case I doubt if legislation will come in, this tends to happen as knee jerk reaction after an incident of some sort re: Dunblane, Hungerford etc. If we as divers want to see 02 on-board then we can of course vote with our feet as has been stated. I think that skippers who carry 02 are seen to be responsible and safe skippers and as customers we can of course take our custom where we see fit.

Rgds
Matt

Andy ,, Who ?

[Pretty Flowers]

Hmm,

Was in two minds about replying to this post

As someone put on O2 after a rapid, uncontrolled ascent from 30 metres (Thanks Andy!) I'd say that I would only want to dive from boats that had it on board. Although I was OK, it could potentially have been quite serious.

With this view, I still think that Skips shouldn't have to carry O2 legally, as it would be the thin end of the wedge as far as legislation is concerned. Having said that I wouldn't dive now on a boat that didn't have it, as I don't fancy having to lug another cylinder on board.

If I was a skipper, I'd carry O2, just because what would you do if there was a serious incident where someone died, who could have made it if I had O2 on board? I think that would be a really hard thing to deal with.

Personally I wouldn't want to go on o2 just because I had a bit of a dodgy ascent, its embarrassing enough to have mucked up without publicly drawing attention to it by taking a hit off the O2...

[tom]

Originally Posted by pretty flowers

its embarrassing enough to have mucked up without publicly drawing attention to it by taking a hit off the O2...

Better to be publicly embarrassed than publicly bent! And remember denial is common among divers with DCS, you personally may not be the right one to decide whether you should go on 02 & the coastguard be informed.

[Pretty Flowers]

Originally Posted by tom

Better to be publicly embarrassed than publicly bent! And remember denial is common among divers with DCS, you personally may not be the right one to decide whether you should go on 02 & the coastguard be informed.

I was just questioning the validity of divers breathing O2 "just because they feel like it..."

In my case, I wasn't really down long enough to get bent. There was a problem with the dump valve on my dry suit, which ment