Should there be an O2 set on Dive Charter Boats?

[Andy the Coastie]

After reading Dec 04's diver mag. Page 9 Skippers comeback is a good write up from Dive skipper Mike Snelling of Girl Gray defending skippers of dive boats .

This is after a chairman of a BSAC club wrote in a letter to Diver's October issue .

No excuses for O2-free skippers

In this day and age, I am amazed that the Health & Safety Executive does not insist that UK charter-boats carry an oxygen set! It is well-documented that the first course of action for a diver with DCS symptoms is to put him or her on O2. Most clubs have their own supply on their RIBS, but if you charter a boat, surely the onus should be on its owner?

In a large club, it's a problem. Mine sometimes runs four or five separate dive trips on the same weekend. We have two O2 sets and two RIBs, so if both RIBs are out we rely on the charter-boats to have O2 onboard. Not all do!

Here's another scenario: what happens if your dive-boat skipper has a heart attack while all the divers are on a drift-dive? Not all skippers have an assistant and, again, I am amazed that this is not an HSE requirement.
Charter-boat skippers will say that charter prices would have to rise to pay for such measures. I'm sure 99% of divers would be willing to pay a little extra for a lot more safety.

My advice is to check before you charter a boat that the skipper has oxygen on board and an assistant. Come on skippers - wise up!
John Rapley, Kingston & Elmbridge BSAC


Anyway, I would like to make a poll, to see what you as divers think.

[Fiona]

For a few years my club went to the Farnes we chartered a boat and took the RIB, total 18 divers.

It was only after an incident that I realised that the Skipper didn't carry O2 and actually he hadn't been asked if he carried it, maybe we took it for granted or maybe we just didn't think. Obviously as a club we had our own set.

Now I would hope that all Skippers if they are licenced to carry divers, would also take the responsibility and have an O2 set on board.

If I were booking a Charter boat for the first time I would ask and if he didn't I would choose another boat.

[MATTBIN]

I'm up for the 02 on charter boats, assistant? Not so necessary in my view. Risk/Cost - unlikely that the skipper's going to keel over at exactly the same time as I'm on a drift dive. More likely he'll keel over cos the weather and viz are good and he gets to take a trip out.

Matt

[beanie]

yep should carry it

and it should be mandatory for clubs too not just recomended

an O2 kit does not cost that much for something that could save someones life

[Noel Johnson]

Myself and Dawn will only use boats with O2

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

I'm up for the 02 on charter boats, assistant? Not so necessary in my view. Risk/Cost - unlikely that the skipper's going to keel over at exactly the same time as I'm on a drift dive. More likely he'll keel over cos the weather and viz are good and he gets to take a trip out.

Matt

New keyboard wanted

[chrisch]

As an individual diver booking a space on a boat you cannot really be expected to turn up with a J in the car boot can you? BSAC clubs etc. will maybe have a kit for their own use, but a charter boat is open to all.

We are our own worse enemy I suspect - you turn up and there's no O2 but if you tell the skipper to F off you don't get to dive.. Maybe lose the booking fee too. That's why it should be a legal requirement as far as I can see.

Chris

PS not a piddly thing either - enough for 4 divers for an hour with DV for all 4....

[tiewrapdiver]

It doesnt sound like a big thing to ask for, that a boat your chartering has the basic facilities to get you out the dodge, after all it carries flares, VHF etc, why not O2 when it is a basic tool for divers.

Tim

[David Wallace]

Wow Andy, you like opening cans of worms dont you


Right.... I carrry O2 7 litre at 200Bar with double outlets, and I think all commercial charters should from a moral point of veiw. That bit over with... lets look at a few FACTS

Charter boats operating inthe Uk are classed in Law as water taxis - what you do at each end of the trip is up to you. The only exception to this is where the charter offers additional services such as tuition, compressor services, hire of equipment (actually on the boat)

HSE is not the responsible party the MCA is. They create the legislation in consultation with a whole load of groups like the BSAC PADI RYA HSE etc etc and the statutory instruments passed by parliment give them the power to enforce the regulations.

Assistants are not required on a charter unless the vessel is operating more than 20 miles from safe haven or during the hours of darkeness at any distance.

rubber boy
The risk assessment needed for commercial operations would identify O2 as neccesary.
The duty of care argument for their customers would kick in.

No the risk assesment for the commercial operation ends when the passengers get off the boat so as you dont need to assess it you cant show you need it

rubber boy
Any dive skipper not carrying O2 and having an incident where it was cited as a contributary factor to the severity would e on a sticky wicket surely?, even without it being legally required

Nope - see above

chrisch
We are our own worse enemy I suspect - you turn up and there's no O2 but if you tell the skipper to F off you don't get to dive.. Maybe lose the booking fee too.

Nope its worse than that - unless you made it a condition of your booking (that the boat carried O2) with the charter boat at the time of your booking you will have to pay not just the booking fee but the full charter cost

You the divers are responsible for your actions in the water and are the ones with the duty of care to each other and everyone else in the group including the skipper

Most peoples O2 admin qualificaions qualify them to asses a diving incident and rightly administer O2 - but most of you are not qualified to take the patient off the O2. what this means in practice is that in any situation that a diver is placed on O2, the hyperbaric doctor is informed via the coastguard. It is the doctor who will asses a situation over the phone and decide on the severity of the injury and the required evacuation procedure. For the charter skipper this will no doubt involve a load of expence as by the time this is all sorted, he will have no doubt missed the tide for the next dive with the associated loss of income. In some cases this can be down to a simply lack of bouyancy skills whilst attempting some decompression stops. I have even had one bloke who missed 17mins of stops coming from 32m like a rocket..... turned out he had never dived a drysuit before but was cold on a dive the day before and borrowed one from a mate. That incident cost me a load of fuel running at 45 knots back to shore, a load of O2 and £240 for the loss of earnings on the next dive.

Opinion

Asking a Skipper if he carries O2 is not enough - what about...How much O2 do you carry & how many people gan you give it to at once. and having asked this think about where you are diving.... what the responce time is going to be from a helo? does the boat carry enough o2 to administer until help arrives? christ, the matrix for this is going to be massive and some boats might want to carry a full J

Then think about who is going to administer it! Skippers going to have his hands full with the boat and the radio let alone picking up the rest of the divers.

I cant believe that divers are asking for more legislation, they had best not ask to loudly or the nanny state is going to give them a load more than they bargained for. Roughly 80% of divers are diving beyond their qualification (but not necessarly experience) this typically is the newly qualified diver buying a computer and within a a few dives using it ....... for just a little deco or divers diving beyond their agencys reconmeded depth limits. How would you like the skippers being forced to check every qualification prior to getting into the water and and not letting you off the boat if your not qualified (after taking your money ) or what about reporting you to the police every time you exceeded your plan or when into deco without a deco qualification? sounds far fetched does it?
At the end of the day divers should be getting the best training, building experience and diving within their own limits and we should be concentation on understanding the root causes for the need for O2 and addressing them in the first instance. Reducing the need for the O2 in the first place is the way to go - them the O2 should be available when real "accidents" actually happen.