Anglesey - Skipper Warning

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Bren Tierney @ July 25 2003,15:54)]Apparently this skipper had been called in at late notice as the original skipper had no-showed, leaving our boys without a RIB or Skipper and, until this later one turned up, no dive.


And lastly, if, as you and Fiona say, Martin was walking up and down the keyside looking for our team, how did he miss four blokes all in dive kit?? Why did he let slip, on the 2nd dive, that he'd been called in at short notice as the original skipper was a no-show??

Sorry, it just doesn't stack up.

<font color='#0000FF'>Bren

I don't know what Martin actually said to your guys, because I wasn't there when it was said, however how could a skipper (Martin) be a last minute replacement if he was putting the boats in at 8.30am and took the first lot out at 9.00am. &nbsp;

Fiona

[Mr T.]

Hi Peter,

There were no other YD no-shows (apart from the ones who let me know well in advance and they were all shore divers, so no money out of my pocket there), other than your goodself mate &nbsp; , I went into the weekend knowing that I'd have to pick up some slack as I'd booked the RIBs and taken orders for them. The fact that we couldn't fill them was known before we arrived and accepted, so no discrepancy there. Diggs, understandably, couldn't care less if we took four or eight divers as the RIB gets paid for either way.


Fiona,

Good point. You tell me?? Then why did he give our boys this news on the second dive??

[daz]

OK as is want to happen, this seems to have ended up with differing views of the events and conversations that took place.

The fundemental question is :- &quot;Did Dig's knowingly charge Bren for under occupancy on a rib that was full and if so why ?&quot;

Most of the other accusations and abuse that has been thrown around could be interpreted a number of ways. &nbsp; Maybe the skipper was a no show, maybe the guys diving could not be found - What difference does it make, they did meet up albeit a bit late and there was no recriminations or hard feeling. &nbsp;Most of the other issues are annoyances at worst (Shit happens) but they seem to have been resolved amicably.

Come on guys this thread seems to have fallen into people venting their personal opinions of individuals / BSAC / YD. (Handbagnet revisited &nbsp;) &nbsp;and apologies if any of my previous posts have added to this.

So if anyone is in contact with Digs and he would like to respond to the question above then fine otherwise I will draw my own conclusion. &nbsp;

Daz

[daz]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (FionaB @ July 25 2003,16:21)]

Bren

I don't know what Martin actually said to your guys, because I wasn't there when it was said, however how could a skipper (Martin) be a last minute replacement if he was putting the boats in at 8.30am and took the first lot out at 9.00am. &nbsp;

Fiona

Again open to intepretation.

Last minute could have meant being asked the previous night to stand in for a no show skipper for the following morning. &nbsp; It is all down to the intepretation of last minute.

So while I am in devils advocate mode, &nbsp;the skipper was standing in for someone else, he could not find the guys despite asking around, maybe he missed them, maybe they were visiting the little boys room.

It does not really matter, they found each other eventually, no one was pissed off and it sounds like they had a good time.

Daz

[MATTBIN]

Bren
thanks for the update and clarifying the position, as Daz says it looks like Diggs was well happy with the arrangements of no shows and cancelled boats. Its a great shame that YOU have had to cough up for the under occupancy, I suspect many other organisers would have expected the booked divers to share the boat cost equally, or cancel completely. It is also somewhat aggravating to find the cost has gone up without warning (i.e. £2/diver). Further to that extra divers were put on 'our' boat without the courtesy of asking if it was OK and that they should have paid you not Diggs or his skipper, you had after all paid for the boat.

As Daz says perhaps we can draw a line under this one as far as wrangling amongst ourselves goes, it is a great shame that external events have caused rucks amongst our own members.

Once again I find myself agreeing with Daz, that Diggs should respond to the question of refunding the 'guest' divers money to you direct.

I'm only glad it didnt ruin your 2 days diving and came to light subsequently.

Matt

[peter k]

I went into the weekend knowing that I'd have to pick up some slack as I'd booked the RIBs and taken orders for them.

Your mucking fental then Bren. You always make sure you're not going to be out of pocket. Why should you be? You took the time and all the effort to organised it!

The fact that we couldn't fill them was known before we arrived and accepted, so no discrepancy there.

The divers should get told if the boat isn't filled then &quot;THEY&quot; pick up the slack, including the no-shows. If it's decided that 4 folk paying for a whole RIB is too dear then you either (a) Say to the skipper that he can take 4 out at, say, £35(whatever is decided between you, the 4 divers and the skipper) a head or (b) Cancel altogether. He'd rather his RIB was out making something.
I'm not having a go, I'm just pi**ed off you've lost money. It seems unfair to me.

Peter

[shinobi]

You can slag me off as much as you like Bren if it makes you feel clever.The fact is, you are just making yourself look like a problem character which could lead to you and your crew being blacklisted with skippers far and wide.
Your reputation will certainly go before you in Anglesey as it is a small community that looks after it's own and I am told that people live and die by their reputation (Including Aubrey Diggle).
Your whole trip sounds as if it was poorly arranged, so little surprise things did not go to plan. You are only sore because you are out of pocket and some of that burden should be shared by your buddies.
As mentioned, Aubrey lost his Mother recently, so give him time to respond to your allegations as I am sure it is the last thing on his mind right now.

Foot note for all:

Booze+Diving=Trouble.

[Mdemon]

If a price has been agreed, you have a verbal contract. &nbsp;It is therefore not just wrong, but illegal to change the price without agreement. &nbsp;Unfortunate though the circumstances are, that's the law.

Lessons learnt:
1) A method needs to be thought out and drawn up, and posted here, to cover organised tips and especially no-shows. Organisers put in a lot of time and effort and shouldn't have to sub other people's bad admin.

2) Fees/charges need to be agreed in advance and written down - no-one should mind providing a quote or issuing a receipt. &nbsp;People should pay deposits, and know what a deposit is for, or pay the whole lot up front.

3) To avoid problems for future organisers in the future, an &quot;aide-memoire&quot; element of the method above should be created. &nbsp;This will be a checklist any organiser can go through to make sure nothing has been forgotten - no-one can remember everything and to new organisers this will be a boon. &nbsp;

If everyone was a) aware of this method and b)(as organisers) use it, then this Diggs situation should become very rare. &nbsp;Situations such as insurance (or lack thereof) would be addressed, RV procedures, &quot;Actions on&quot; situations (e.g. for diver or RIB no-shows) etc etc would be understood by all - and if not, those concerned could be told to RTFM!!! (Read The F**** Manual!)

Organising events is often a thankless task - and often omissions or misunderstandings can spoil it for those organising as well as those attending. &nbsp;How about we help each other out on this? &nbsp;Or gigs will cease to happen...

[peter k]

I've found,especially on YD as it's folk I don't really know or see, the best way to organise it is over your own E-mail address and to their own E-mail. This way you can either deal with the group as a whole(set up a contact group for the gig) or answer individual questions directly. Things tend to get lost in threads and don't get dealt with in an orderly fashion. That's why I made a point of everyone mailing me.
&nbsp; I sent out a mail to the SoM group yesterday saying that the people I have, have until Tuesday to pull out. This gives me time to re-organise extra heads to fill the space and shows a definate commitment from them. If I have a pull-out after Tuesday then either (a) I fill the space if I can and everything is OK or (b) If I can't fill the space then they're still paying anyway. If they don't pay then the cost gets divvied up between the rest of us. So, in turn, the pull-out is not only pi**ing me off, but another x amount of folk.
&nbsp;I tend to do this in what I look at as my 1 nasty E-mail. The same mail tells all the costs, when it's to be paid, how it's to be paid, etc.
&nbsp;

In fact. Here's the mail I sent out. Hope the troops on the gig don't mind.

Hi Folks,

Peter Kelly,
Gavin Yates,
Fiona Yates,
Chris Hall,
Liz Rimer,
Lesley,
Julia C,
Nick,
Tony Perez,
Mark Davies,
Tony Parahandy,
John Mitchell.

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'm now satisfied that the folk I have on the above list are deffos for the first boat. I have whipped the number monkeys and have came up with your totals;

It comes out at £35 per day inc.accom + diving. So for most of us it's £105. Mark Davies + Tony Perez you'll be £70 each. From making my life easier I'd like it all in one go. If for whatever reason you can't send it all just now then I'll accept a deposit of £55 with the rest to be paid on the Saturday night.
&nbsp;As I said on the last gig it just has to get done on a trust thing. Gav, Fi and Parahandy Tony will vouch I'm not going to run away. Although the Red Sea is meant to be nice at this time of year!!!!!
&nbsp;Sacramento Tony- I'll just see you there unless Mark wants to cover you.
&nbsp;Chris/Liz- I assume you'll pass this onto Lesley along with the other info.
&nbsp;I'm not holding my breathe to fill up the 2nd boat anymore. If it happens, it happens, but I need to get cash away to Phil and Alan ASAP just to confirm our boat/accom.
I'll accept cheques or Postal Orders. Could the cheques please be made out to the below name and address? Please note it isn't my name. The bank isn't talking to me at the moment. The joys of being a poor student. If you could get them away in the next week or so that would be great? Don't make me come-a-hunting?

(***********
**********,
Glasgow,
Scotland,
G43 ***

Home 'phone is 0141-*********.
Mobile is lost but it's **********. (I'll let you know when I find it)

Tuesday the 31st of July is the cut-off day for non-comers. If you have not informed myself by then, that you are not coming, then you are still responsible for your costs unless the space(s) get(s) filled. It only makes it unfair on others to pick up the slack.(and it'll confuse the hell out of me)

Right troops, that's the nastiness all out the way. I'm looking forward to it. It should be a goodun.

Peter

Dead easy, dealt with in 1 mail

[Jay]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (shinobi @ July 26 2003,11:36)]You can slag me off as much as you like Bren if it makes you feel clever.The fact is, you are just making yourself look like a problem character which could lead to you and your crew being blacklisted with skippers far and wide.
Your reputation will certainly go before you in Anglesey as it is a small community that looks after it's own and I am told that people live and die by their reputation (Including Aubrey Diggle).
Your whole trip sounds as if it was poorly arranged, so little surprise things did not go to plan. You are only sore because you are out of pocket and some of that burden should be shared by your buddies.
As mentioned, Aubrey lost his Mother recently, so give him time to respond to your allegations as I am sure it is the last thing on his mind right now.

Foot note for all:

Booze+Diving=Trouble.

Was staying out of this but its starting to get out of hand so:

1. Condolences to Diggs first and foremost - this is not personal and its never nice for anyone to lose a loved one.

2.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]you are just making yourself look like a problem character which could lead to you and your crew being blacklisted with skippers far and wide

- Bren is a YD member, not the owner and I don't take kindly to threats no matter how miss guided.

3.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Your whole trip sounds as if it was poorly arranged, so little surprise things did not go to plan

- the trip was as well organised as any large outing can be. The issue at hand is this - on the second shuttle of Sunday, we paid for a full RIB and then a further four seats were sold to another group of divers. Bren rightly wanted to know why he was charged for seats that Diggs already managed to fill and is still waiting for an answer. Any other issues mentioned in this thread are supplemental.

4.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]You are only sore because you are out of pocket

- well yes, and so would anyone be if you were paying for someting unnecessary.

5.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Booze+Diving=Trouble

- yep, but doesn't apply to that weekend as that wasn't the issue.

By the way, having pops from behind an alias is never clever (why exactly did you pick 'ninja'??)