Charter Skippers Diver Orientation?

[angleseydiver]

It's not generally rough weather that causes sea-sickness in divers, it's usually down to the amount of ale consumed the night before. Most will stick to a couple and be OK but some will be sick even if they don't drink and whatever the weather.... some folk just don't get on with boats.
I think I was about 30 before I stopped upchucking on boats on a regular basis- there's dedication for you! It used to mainly get me at night when we were out for a week or so at a time so I can fully sympathise with the saying "at first you think you're going to die then you start praying that you want to die".

ATB,
Terry

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by angleseydiver

It's not generally rough weather that causes sea-sickness in divers, it's usually down to the amount of ale consumed the night before. Most will stick to a couple and be OK but some will be sick even if they don't drink and whatever the weather.... some folk just don't get on with boats.
I think I was about 30 before I stopped upchucking on boats on a regular basis- there's dedication for you! It used to mainly get me at night when we were out for a week or so at a time so I can fully sympathise with the saying "at first you think you're going to die then you start praying that you want to die".

ATB,
Terry

And ya gut's empty when that little brown do-nut comes out ya lips

[Angleseyskipper]

Originally Posted by Andy the Commie

And ya gut's empty when that little brown do-nut comes out ya lips

LOL

[Paul Oliver]

Originally Posted by Yellow Butty Box

There are a lot of grey area's paul regarding dive charters some are best left well alone unless you want a can of worms opened and a more expensive day out.
There will always be skippers who will push a bad day sometimes its pure greed possibly its a posh new charter boat with lifts ,benches and big engines that needs paying for cos the bank own it ,what ever the reason it happens.
All charter skippers have to work under what is called favourable conditions but even this is not clear cut.
wind strenght F5 etc,it is not just the strength but the direction that dictates if you can or cannot dive safely
For example here on Anglesey a SW gale we would be out with divers cos its off the land and water is flat calm inshore and you can dive in complete safety ask Mark Davies ,however a F3 N, NW, NE means onshore wind and we can't even get out of the harbour .

so there's no point in using the wind strength as a base every area needs local knowledge
In general i think the Uk dive charter industry has a pretty good track record apart from that incident on the east coast ,not often you hear of boats sinking or hitting reefs or leaving divers behind.
i can't comment on your day out cos i wasn't there but everyone onboard has a choice to dive or not.
This is another grey area as people ideas of what is and isn't safe vary with their level of experince so its not an exact science.
In your case however if things were that bad and i felt it was dangerous personally i would not of dived or paid the skipper if there was no alternative site on offer.
We may just be "Taxi,s" but there is still a duty of care with ALL passengers
ATB elfyn

Yup, understand this totally, as we have some similar issues off Dover, and infact there are not many inshore dive site's that don't have local variables like this.

The local knowledge is one of my big points on my report thread, as the skipper stated that a Southwesterly with wind speeds of 22-26 knots was OK in Whitsands Bay, Plymouth.

This wind strength is damn high and from the worst possible direction for that location, thats why all the local dive Centers canceled their diving apart from apparently one other boat.

Also having big sea rollers coming into a shallow bay creates some serious surge, something i have not got too much experience with as although i am used to strong tides, up and down wave surges of the strength we had are quite rare in most areas i have dived in.

[Andy the Coastie]

Paul....

As you arranged this trip, are a club DO and a BSAC boat driver.........

Why didn't you take up this point with the skipper when you knew the sea wa bouncy ,,,,, before even trying to get kitted up ?

You could have just had a little ride and no expenses to your bunch of un happy divers.

[Mal Bridgeman]

Paul,
I know you were pretty p*ssed off after your experience the other day and I am reading between the lines about extra information you;d like given to the Charter boat skippers....but introducing a rule about this sort of thing tends to cater for the lowest common demoninator and probably would not improve things as a whole.

Once the bureaucrats get hold of things they rarely end up implemented in the way the idea was conceived.

What would help in my opinion, is a set of guidelines that could be given to divers to help them make a decision about whether they want the skipper to take them out. I would favour this approach since it means the divers taking responsibility for their own safety. Of course there is a commercial angle to it....but if the divers decide not to dive becasue it is unsafe then are they so worried about the cost?

What do you think?
Mal

[Paul Oliver]

He should have called it in advance, i think i made my view clear on what was safe, however, he had a good reputation, and i bowed to his local knowledge and this reputation, which was a mistake i am happy to put my hand up to.

The Sea state Sat did not involve lots of white horses, however the surge situation was something not in my experience field, but i would have expected it to be in his local knowledge.

You mentioned yourself about knowitalls

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

i am used to strong tides, up and down wave surges of the strength we had are quite rare in most areas i have dived in.

Thats why we say " If you can dive DOVER, you can dive anywhere else in the world " THAT excludes muddy puddles ........

It's one on my reason i have always been bought up with,,,,,,,,, you train in the enviroment you are going to work / play in .

We have the wind awkward here as this this part of the channel acts like a funnel with both wind and tide ........

Yesterday was blowing a 8 - 9 , but the sea was flat after a mile outside Dover, however out on lifeboat training last night , the wind was down to 18 - 22 at Port Control,,, but was fun surfing in the waves and getting the boat up BOW high

[Paul Oliver]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Paul,
I know you were pretty p*ssed off after your experience the other day and I am reading between the lines about extra information you;d like given to the Charter boat skippers....but introducing a rule about this sort of thing tends to cater for the lowest common demoninator and probably would not improve things as a whole.

Once the bureaucrats get hold of things they rarely end up implemented in the way the idea was conceived.

What would help in my opinion, is a set of guidelines that could be given to divers to help them make a decision about whether they want the skipper to take them out. I would favour this approach since it means the divers taking responsibility for their own safety. Of course there is a commercial angle to it....but if the divers decide not to dive becasue it is unsafe then are they so worried about the cost?

What do you think?
Mal

Well 3 days Charter and 3 Nights Accom all amounts to quite a bit, so as a trip organizer if i cancel that against the skippers advise as he feels its good to dive and i am liable to pay gets very hard to justify.

I'm not just referring to my experience but also to Chasey's when he fell overboard.

However several skippers advising me not to pay is also very encouraging.

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

He should have called it in advance, i think i made my view clear on what was safe, however, he had a good reputation, and i bowed to his local knowledge and this reputation, which was a mistake i am happy to put my hand up to.

Point taken ,,, but sounds to me " start of the season and needs the money " ........ I have a good rep,, and as you know, if i say to my divers " Well lads i thinks it's borderline, and if i was diivig , i wouldn't leave the boat " . It's not just a case of getting off , down a shot ,, BUT GETTING BACK ON.........

Doesn't BSAC teach somewhere in dive planning ,,, If you can't exit , don't enter ?

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

The Sea state Sat did not involve lots of white horses, however the surge situation was something not in my experience field, but i would have expected it to be in his local knowledge.

LEYBOURNE PUDDLE, time to give up ya season ticket and get salty

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

You mentioned yourself about knowitalls

Yip, but you are like myself with years of experience , although you only have 1 / 10th's of the sea logged dives ...... I trust you if you came to me and said " Bit lumpy , what do you think ? " . to me thats saying ,,, dangerous turn back ,,,,,,,,,, and i wouldn't charge......... BUT , i'm a exception to the rule .

KNOWITALLS i refer to are those with less than a few years diving , not done much sea dives , got the tickets and a air head ,,,,, turn up with 20 million cylinders and crap.........and from diving to many puddles have not got a monkey spu*k of sense.