Skipper only or 2 crew on offshore trips?

[warmwaterdiver]

I was talking (late!) last night to a mate about offshore trips and whether or not the skipper should have a member of crew onboard.

We came to the agreement that for short distance offshore and for doing wrecks where there was a good possibility of nearby help, then an additional member of crew wouldn't necessarily be required. Whereas 30 miles offshore is a long way out for the skipper alone.

I'm sure this came up last year and someone posted a link to a document of "recommmendations" not sure if it was the RYA's, MCA's or other. I think it was left at the skippers discreation but advice was made. (any idea of a link to the original thread please)

A couple of boats I use, I use specifically because they do have a second memeber of crew, whether they are highly efficient skippers or just learning the ropes matters less, so long as they are "competant crew".

The example given to me was if we were 30 miles out on a dive and the single-handed boats skipper keels over, what was my expectations?

I was shocked to actually think what the answer might be!

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by warmwaterdiver

I was talking (late!) last night to a mate about offshore trips and whether or not the skipper should have a member of crew onboard.

We came to the agreement that for short distance offshore and for doing wrecks where there was a good possibility of nearby help, then an additional member of crew wouldn't necessarily be required. Whereas 30 miles offshore is a long way out for the skipper alone.

I'm sure this came up last year and someone posted a link to a document of "recommmendations" not sure if it was the RYA's, MCA's or other. I think it was left at the skippers discreation but advice was made. (any idea of a link to the original thread please)

A couple of boats I use, I use specifically because they do have a second memeber of crew, whether they are highly efficient skippers or just learning the ropes matters less, so long as they are "competant crew".

The example given to me was if we were 30 miles out on a dive and the single-handed boats skipper keels over, what was my expectations?

I was shocked to actually think what the answer might be!

If you are out on a commercial boat either at night or more than 20miles from the nearest safe haven then it is not optional it has been in the code for commercial boats since 1992. The skipper MUST have crew on the boat and this cannot be a diver nominated as crew as they have to stay on the boat with the skipper at all times.

[warmwaterdiver]

Originally Posted by David Wallace

If you are out on a commercial boat either at night or more than 20miles from the nearest safe haven then it is not optional it has been in the code for commercial boats since 1992. The skipper MUST have crew on the boat and this cannot be a diver nominated as crew as they have to stay on the boat with the skipper at all times.

and if they are in breach Dave ?

also "safe haven" AIUI is harbour or safe water, such as sheltered bay?

[Mal Bridgeman]

It was discussed at the BDSG a couple of years ago but nothing concrete was concluded IIRC. Their advice is here.

HTH
Mal

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by warmwaterdiver

and if they are in breach Dave ?

also "safe haven" AIUI is harbour or safe water, such as sheltered bay?

If they are in breach then ring up the MCA enforcement branch and tell them.

Safe haven = “Safe haven” means a harbour or shelter of any kind which affords safe entry and protection from the force of weather;

taken from the code found here

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

It was discussed at the BDSG a couple of years ago but nothing concrete was concluded IIRC. Their advice is here.

HTH
Mal

Sorry Mal,
Much as I hate to I have to disagree with you here. If it was discussed by the group and they could not read and understand the code where requirements are clearly laid down then I would have to conclude that the Group is less than effective.

[stevechesh]

Originally Posted by warmwaterdiver

I was talking (late!) last night to a mate about offshore trips and whether or not the skipper should have a member of crew onboard.

We came to the agreement that for short distance offshore and for doing wrecks where there was a good possibility of nearby help, then an additional member of crew wouldn't necessarily be required. Whereas 30 miles offshore is a long way out for the skipper alone.

I'm sure this came up last year and someone posted a link to a document of "recommmendations" not sure if it was the RYA's, MCA's or other. I think it was left at the skippers discreation but advice was made. (any idea of a link to the original thread please)

A couple of boats I use, I use specifically because they do have a second memeber of crew, whether they are highly efficient skippers or just learning the ropes matters less, so long as they are "competant crew".

The example given to me was if we were 30 miles out on a dive and the single-handed boats skipper keels over, what was my expectations?

I was shocked to actually think what the answer might be!

After Nicks little report a few weeks back, the Coastguard informed him that they are trying to push legislation through to ensure there is at least another crew member on board and/or a non-diving dive marshall (i.e. a marshall that doesn't actually enter the water).

With the costs of boats going up to between £500-600 for offshore stuff, + the cost of another crew member, i think it'll be a slippery downhill slope for the diving and charter business.

That said, i don't think it's a bad idea in principle, but as always, the costs will impact everyone.

[David Wallace]

So I have pulled the the wording on manning in the code for information areas 3,4,5,6, are all less than 20 miles from safe haven. area 3 may operate at night but as you read this you will see that it cannot do so single handed.


here it is;

7. Single Handed Operations

7.1 The MCA does not recommend single handed operations. Vessels operating under this Code, other than those engaged as Pilot Boats or in any other business which involves the transfer of personnel at sea, may be operated single handed providing that the person operating the vessel complies fully with the minimum requirements for a skipper (appropriately qualified for the operating area) and the following conditions:-

the area of operation is restricted to Area Category 3, 4, 5 or 6 in conditions of favourable weather and subject to favourable official weather forecasts for the area throughout the period of operation; and
the duration of the voyage should not exceed 8 hours; and
the vessel is not operated single handed in conditions of restricted visibility; and
an acceptable lifejacket is worn at all times by the skipper; and
no overside working takes place whilst the vessel is being operated single handed; and
details of the time and point of departure, voyage plan and the Expected Time of Arrival (ETA) of every single handed voyage are left with a suitable person ashore and that person is notified of the safe arrival on completion of each voyage; and
communication should be made with a person ashore or with a vessel in company at regular agreed intervals; and
on all open sportsboats, inflatable craft and RIBS, engine kill-cords should be fitted and used at all times.
7.2 In some cases, because of the size and arrangement of the vessel, the Certifying Authority may deem the vessel not to be suitable for single handed operations. In all cases where single handed operations are carried out, the owner/managing agent and the skipper should be satisfied that it is safe to do so. The vessels certificate should show that it is suitable for “single handed” operations

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by David Wallace

Sorry Mal,
Much as I hate to I have to disagree with you here. If it was discussed by the group and they could not read and understand the code where requirements are clearly laid down then I would have to conclude that the Group is less than effective.

I slightly misread Gary's question but don't think there's anything to disagree about.... The BDSG discussed the issue in the aftermath of an incident in the North East.....I don't think the discussion had a "distance from shore" perspective but was more on the generics of "crew on a dive boat" and whether there should be a blanket two people in all circumstances.

HTH
Mal

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by stevechesh

After Nicks little report a few weeks back, the Coastguard informed him that they are trying to push legislation through to ensure there is at least another crew member on board and/or a non-diving dive marshall (i.e. a marshall that doesn't actually enter the water).

There are fractions of the MCA that are pushing for this along with some representative from PADI and BSAC who interestingly are not pushing for the same regulations on private / club boats. The BDSG are apparently also pushing down this line - again just for commercial boats. If you actually take a look at statistics for the commercially operated boats and private / club boats I feel that you would be hard pushed to justify such action which is perhaps why they have been unsuccessful so far.

It is a slippery slope adding more costs to the charter overheads and its made worse with the fuel prices right at this moment.