Charter ripoff's

[Paul Beal]

It is a bit far back in the thread now, but I just wanted to comment on a point that Skipper made.

University dive clubs are mostly funded by the student union rather than the university. In the unis I have studied at at least (UEA and Leeds) the union makes the majority of its money from union enterprises such as shops, bars and lets to contractors (Endsleigh insurance for example). Therefore uni clubs are not directly funded by the tax payer.

I guess however, it could be argued that students do not pay tax and that universties themselves are funded by the tax payer and therefore the students (but not the student clubs) are funded by the tax payer.

Paul

[Digger]

<font color='#000080'>Goign back right near the beginning I'd also like to raise the issue of safety briefings on boats in sunnier climes. When working at Cydive (back in the day) there would be a safety briefing for any boat ride anywhere. There was a set protocol for the briefing, including where the O2 was kept (which was carried on absolutely every trip any time) and first aid kit. There was no brief for use of the radio because all the staff were briefed. If one of 5 or 6 members of staff can't get to the radio, it's not yur day and we're all going down. &nbsp;So I'd like to stand up in defence of places like. If you get on a boat and there isn't a safety briefing, your'e more than wecome to get off. I can't see many dive operators charging you, just think of the publicity going against them if they did.

As for UK charters, my diving is about 50/50 probably. It used to be a lot of club diving, but now Andy's opened up in Dover, and being such a nice bloke, I go down there when I can. There's a good crowd, and we have fun knowing that the skipper is on the ball and well trained in safety protocol and everything else.

I'd also like to see you work it out at £1.50 a dive. Show me the figures, and I'll prove you wrong. We do it as a uni club for about a fiver+ a dive, because we get a lot of funding, and the divers on a boat don't pay for the loan to get it, the membership fees do mostly. Our choice as a club, and encourages people to get out on the boats, and is a reasonable way of doing it. ALl we're paying really is the fuel, and that tends to be about a fiver each. Incredibly good value for money, but we have to provide boat handlers, O2 admin, and all the rest of it. I like the freedom of a charter sometimes.

M&amp;C, you're funny, but don't let trolling turn into getting banned. We have a limit, and you're close to it if you ask me. A few of the guys n the boards are charter skippers, and have a lot of customers and potential customers on the boards. Their donations to YD help us to keep the forums running and advert banner-free. Piss them off enough and they'll go elsewhere, where they dn't have to spend hours justifying their prices to trolls.

In the mean time, a bit of gentle trollng is good for a giggle.

Digs.

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Paul Beal @ April 16 2004,08:55)]It is a bit far back in the thread now, but I just wanted to comment on a point that Skipper made.

University dive clubs are mostly funded by the student union rather than the university. In the unis I have studied at at least (UEA and Leeds) the union makes the majority of its money from union enterprises such as shops, bars and lets to contractors (Endsleigh insurance for example). Therefore uni clubs are not directly funded by the tax payer.

I guess however, it could be argued that students do not pay tax and that universties themselves are funded by the tax payer and therefore the students (but not the student clubs) are funded by the tax payer.

Paul

&nbsp;

ok I'll bite and counter with 2 points

1) go back to the original point, If the club is being subsidised by the elements you say then the diving is being subsidised and by that nature the diving charges being paid for a dive trip are not real - they are subsidised. A boat is a hole in the ocean in which to throw money - it is not possible to run dive trips at £1 per person per trip. If we ignor the funding for boats which is commonplace these days any individual or club would have to purchase a boat and account for depreciation, storage, repair and maintenance, licencing and insurence before even starting to think about the direct costs of a dive trip.

2) If any of the normal &quot;business&quot; costs associated with the shops bars and lets to contractors are being reduced or subsidised by the uni then I'll stand by my original comment - examples - business insurance, business retes, commercial rent, heating, lighting,.......... get the idea?

big &nbsp; &nbsp;jsut so you dont take offence &nbsp;

[Paul Beal]

O.K, I am not 100% sure I understand the point you are trying to make. I was not saying that uni clubs are not subsidised - they are (well, some are - many are just helped with equipment buying and kit maintenence).

I was trying to say that it is not your taxes that fund them as quiped by you in your post on page 3 - copied here:

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]For Ui clubs I'll steer clear other than to say that I have always wondered how much of my taxes pay for Uni members diving &nbsp;

For the record, I agree with everything you say about trip costs. I have been in charge of many a club diving trip and £5 per dive is a good budget to aim for. However, you pay a charter skipper for his or her expertise and extensive knowledge of the area - how many professional skippers need to drop a reference buoy, chug round for 30mins and eventually find the wreck. Doing it yourself is cheaper, you get what you pay for though!

Paul

I am firmly on the side of RIB diving but if someone an do a dive for £5 ahead in real costs than I want to join their club. As a boat owner I know exactly how much it costs to run one and it ain't cheap. Most clubs have the boat funded by grants and subs so you have to add this in as well.
If you are only diving every few weeks hadboats will be cheaper, where a RIB scores is flexibility. The direct fuel costs are cheaper and allow lots of diving but you have to factor in all the costs for a true cost per dive. it will be years before the RIB average dive cost has dropped to make it competitive with what is being paid out on hardboats per dive but I reckon its worth it.

[David Wallace]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Paul Beal @ April 19 2004,09:05)]O.K, I am not 100% sure I understand the point you are trying to make. I was not saying that uni clubs are not subsidised - they are (well, some are - many are just helped with equipment buying and kit maintenence).

I was trying to say that it is not your taxes that fund them as quiped by you in your post on page 3 - copied here:

The point &nbsp;I was making.........

2) If any of the normal &quot;business&quot; costs associated with the shops bars and lets to contractors are being reduced or subsidised by the uni then I'll stand by my original comment - examples - business insurance, business retes, commercial rent, heating, lighting,.......... get the idea?

The public pay for the Uni

If the uni is subing the club in any of the ways in 2 above then the public is funding the club?

So... if for example you are getting boat storage on the uni property for free, in a roundabout way the public is paying for that..

Or is my logic completly screwed up today

regards

[Andy the Coastie]

<font color='#0000FF'>Just for the record, i bought 2 engine starting batteries today at the cost of £ 113.40 for the pair, got 2 more on order. &nbsp;Now i got them BRAND NEW but at cost as i know a man in the trade.

If one battery was bought for a RIB at the beginning of the year .. at the cost i got them at £ 56.70, that means it costs £ 1.09 per week,,,,,,,,, THATS ONE diver's dive paying just for the battery.........

£ 1.50 a dive , me not thinks so ......

[Simon TW]

<font color='#000080'>I've been musing through the comments and I think that M&amp;C has got a topic started when he was just trying to pi** folk off.

Diving, however you do it is still diving. some people like comfort, some like roughing it. Budget can be a constraint for some while for others it's no problem.

If your the owner of a charter boat you have invested in your business and deserve to earn a decent living. Why worry if someone is earning money, if he's not he will be out of business and their will be one less boat to dive from. People still shop at Harrods dispite Mohamed Al Fayed having pots of cash and his own jet.

I don't resent anyone earning a living, If I think it's too expensive or unsafe I can walk away.

I have never dived off any boat in the UK but when I do I have a choice of how, when and where.

[Andy the Coastie]

@ Simon

[Brian of Aquanauts]

We used to run a club that used RIBs... and oh my god how much money did we put into them. The club divers thought it was great but no one appreciated all the extra work that we did with maintenance and towing and launching the bl**dy things.

Stopped using the RIBs this year and and now we organise customers and the club members together to charter the local boats. All in all chartering other peoples boats is actually cheaper and 10 times less work for us lot. Somebody else has to worry about the boat and we just turn up and dive.

Charter skippers do a stirling job and don't end up with more than a modest wage, and I don't think the costs even really pay for the depreciation on a new boat. We get a better, professional service, cups of tea, biscuits if we're good and a heads on board! The luxuary is more than worth it.