PFO what it looks like.

[ray]

Hi.

Brett Thorpe from Dive Life is bearing his heart for us all.

http://www.divelife.co.uk/Index/Video/Other/PFO/pfo.wmv

[rigdiver]

I've been told by a cardiologist that this can be repaired in a cardiac cath lab without having open heart surgery. If it's not life threatening then it would be hard to get it done as "medically necessary."

[ardhill]

Originally Posted by rigdiver

If it's not life threatening then it would be hard to get it done as "medically necessary."

A PFO is known to increase the chances of you getting a bend. A bend can range from discomfort to death with all sorts of variations in between.

Outside of diving, a PFO is regarded as being harmless and approx 25%of the population (in the UK anyway) have one. The majority of those apparently never have any problems throughout their life, some people with a PFO suffer from migraine headaches.

But, as a diver it MAY be extremely dangerous. Though I guess many divers have PFOs and never noticed a problem. If you are concerned, go see your doc armed with reports of PFOs and DCI - you can find various reports on the web. Then hope he / she listens and is convinced that you need the test & op. Hope he doesn't tell you to give up diving

[Simon TW]

Well errrr.... I'm not a doctor but I think that you'll find that a PFO can only be repaired if it's below 10 mm (I may be wrong on the size).

PFO's are also responsible for some Migraines and tiredness, they don't just affect divers and the quality of life for migraine sufferers can be greatly improved through a grommet being placed in the hole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4793634.stm

[Hazel W]

Interestingly ... I was told yesterday that the concept of PFO s as a cause of a bend may be a red herring ....and that the true cause may be "shunts" !

I have no idea what that means but as the person imparting the information had just returned from a conference on diving medicine its very likley that any explanation involved very very long words and at least two powerpoint presentations .

Hazel

[SoggyFox]

Originally Posted by divebiatch

Interestingly ... I was told yesterday that the concept of PFO s as a cause of a bend may be a red herring ....and that the true cause may be "shunts" !

I have no idea what that means but as the person imparting the information had just returned from a conference on diving medicine its very likley that any explanation involved very very long words and at least two powerpoint presentations .

Hazel

I thought a shunt was a movement of blood from one side of the heart to the other through a hole by-passing the lungs, ie blood full of gas by-passing being exhaled out of the lungs.

hopefully some medical guru will explain all.

[Dr T]

you could have said !!.... i was just eating my morning cakes !!

note to self: 3 months to medical.......only eating half my cake now





ash

[Hellvet]

Originally Posted by Simon TW

Well errrr.... I'm not a doctor but I think that you'll find that a PFO can only be repaired if it's below 10 mm (I may be wrong on the size).

PFO's are also responsible for some Migraines and tiredness, they don't just affect divers and the quality of life for migraine sufferers can be greatly improved through a grommet being placed in the hole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4793634.stm

Definitely wrong on the size - mine was 12mm, and we had one in the club previously that was bigger (like 20mm , but that was before my time!). We've had 3 of these in one of my clubs in the last year - 2 of us had severe neuro bends, and one had a skin bend, and all of us have PFO's.

However you may be right about the shunt aspect of this - my PFO was open and shunting all the time, but they do have variable degrees of openness apparently...

[Larry Hadley]

A patent foramen ovale (PFO) is one type of atrial septal defect, that is an opening between the two atria (upper chambers of the heart).
A shunt is the passage of blood through the opening. Mine is shunting at rest, but most will only shunt when you sniff, sneeze, cough, equalise, take a dump, exert yourself, etc.
When it shunts any nitrogen bubbles returning towards the lungs can by-pass the lungs and shoot straight into the arteries.
Straight to your brain, central nervous system, skin, and just about anywhere else. I got hit in the brain and the right eye. Although the neurolgical bend responded to chamber treatment, unfortunately my eye has not.
So if bubbles can shunt over, then so also can any blood clots, leading to stroke or heart attack. Until I get mine closed (transcatheter method) I have to take special precautions including blood thinning drugs whenever I fly long-haul or go into hospital.
In a way divers who have identified a PFO after an undeserved hit are luckier than the poor chap whose first indication of an ASD is a stroke.
I think you'll agree that even if I didn't want to dive again, I'd still want to have my hole filled. (That's the one in my heart.)
One final note of caution, the closure must be absolute if you wish to dive safely.
As I'm not a medic my apologies to you experts out there if I've got anything wrong in the above. Please correct me if I have.
Yours in diving
Larry

[Hellvet]

weeelll, actually, the closure doesn't have to be complete (apparently!) to make diving safe!!
That messed with my head - i was expecting to be sealed and bubbleless when i was "fixed" but being "fixed" (PFO - wise that is) for me is the hole not being capable of a clot passing across, and also not capable of being the cause of a bend (according to PW) tho i can still force a very few bubbles across in extreme circumstances...
Bizarre! but i guess you have to believe PW tho its taken a long while for me to get my head round it!