Artificial respiration

[Hazel W]

Well.....finally some sense

Having just renewed my basic life support qualification I was interested when someone in the class asked the question "should the artificial respiration sequence be altered when the victim is hypoxic?"

the answer is YES
if the victim has suffered from oxygen deprivation due to drowning (or running out of gas or freediving etc) then the sequence should be
5 rescue breaths
30 cheast compressions
2 rescue breaths
30 compressions
then on in the normal 30-2


this is because otherwise the first all important compressions would be wasted if there is no Oxygen in the system to pump round

(normally you start with 30 compressions )

so its good to know !


Hazel

[MATTBIN]

That might be current thinking but I have been advised that cpr will soon be performed without rescue breaths as there is a resounding reluctance to risk infection from victim to first aider and many first aiders are now stating they will not do recsue breathing (office/street environmen - not divers)

Matt

[Janos]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

That might be current thinking but I have been advised that cpr will soon be performed without rescue breaths as there is a resounding reluctance to risk infection from victim to first aider and many first aiders are now stating they will not do recsue breathing (office/street environmen - not divers)

This is bonkers. Even if these are yoo bulky, you can always carry one of these. And why not get a mini fire extinguisher and a first aid kit for the house while you're at it?

Janos

[Janos]

Originally Posted by divebiatch

Well.....finally some sense

Having just renewed my basic life support qualification I was interested when someone in the class asked the question "should the artificial respiration sequence be altered when the victim is hypoxic?"

the answer is YES
if the victim has suffered from oxygen deprivation due to drowning (or running out of gas or freediving etc) then the sequence should be
5 rescue breaths
30 cheast compressions
2 rescue breaths
30 compressions
then on in the normal 30-2


this is because otherwise the first all important compressions would be wasted if there is no Oxygen in the system to pump round

(normally you start with 30 compressions )

so its good to know !

We've also been discussing the changes over on the BSAC forums, and have just updated the BSAC courses to reflect the new guidelines. I

f you are recovering a diver from the sea then the guidance is to give them 1 minute of Rescue Breaths (no CC as they are in kit). Then dekit them and recover them (without rescue breaths). Then go in to the 30CC / 2RB sequence.

Janos

[nickb]

Originally Posted by Janos

This is bonkers. Even if these are yoo bulky, you can always carry one of these. And why not get a mini fire extinguisher and a first aid kit for the house while you're at it?

Janos

This is good advice. My wife's a first-aider and has a fold-up mouthpiece thingy like this as a key-ring which goes more-or-less everywhere with her.

[Hazel W]

On the boat we have these

http://www.midmeds.co.uk/ambu-spur-r...ator-p-37.html

...but it costs virtually nothing to have a face shield in your purse/ wallet.

Your chance of catching something from a victim are virtually nil anyway provided they are not bleeding about the face.

Hazel

[dlegros]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

That might be current thinking but I have been advised that cpr will soon be performed without rescue breaths as there is a resounding reluctance to risk infection from victim to first aider and many first aiders are now stating they will not do recsue breathing (office/street environmen - not divers)

Matt

Not quite correct.

I did include the Compression Only CPR information in my posting of the 2005 Resuscitation Guidelines

Originally Posted by RC(UK) 2005 Guidelines for Lay-Person Basic Life Support

6b. Chest-compression-only CPR may be used as follows.
If you are not able or are unwilling to give rescue breaths, give chest compressions only.
If chest compressions only are given, these should be continuous, at a rate of 100 min?1.
Stop to recheck the victim only if he starts breathing normally; otherwise do not interrupt resuscitation.

Some of the evidence-base for compression only CPR certainly included rescuer's unwillingness to perform ventilation without protection. However, it was found that there was not too much difference in outcomes (mostly negative anyway, unless you happen to have a LUCAS, theoretically, this is due to the fact that at the point on a primary cardiac arrest (most common in general public arrests - NB diving accidents are more likely primary respiratory arrests, as indicated by hazel), the patient with have residual oxygen from peri-arrest respiration and the metabolic demands of the patient are thought to decrease dramatically.

Dom

[MATTBIN]

Originally Posted by dlegros

Not quite correct.

I did include the Compression Only CPR information in my posting of the 2005 Resuscitation Guidelines



Some of the evidence-base for compression only CPR certainly included rescuer's unwillingness to perform ventilation without protection. However, it was found that there was not too much difference in outcomes (mostly negative anyway, unless you happen to have a LUCAS, theoretically, this is due to the fact that at the point on a primary cardiac arrest (most common in general public arrests - NB diving accidents are more likely primary respiratory arrests, as indicated by hazel), the patient with have residual oxygen from peri-arrest respiration and the metabolic demands of the patient are thought to decrease dramatically.

Dom

Thanks for the inside info Dom, it was at a recent AED course where it was stated non AV for CPR might become the norn for amateur 1st aiders.

Matt

[dlegros]

If compression only CPR develops further (it is being researched a lot more in the US - Arizona seem to go for it!), maybe in the next guidelines (or even after that) you might see compression only becoming the norm, but we are feasibly talking 5-10 years.

With AEDs, bear in mind that all current AEDs need updating/reprogramming due to the Advanced Life Support Guidelines changing.

Current AED algorithms call for 3 shocks, the new guidelines call for a single shock at maximum energy.

Dom

[Tazzie]

I'm sorry but I am really confused

I did the first part of my EFR training last night which included CPR - we were taught to do 15 compressions then 2 rescue breaths, repeat cycle 4 times before 10 second check to see results

Is this right or wrong?

Also nothing was mentioned about a different cycle should the person have been "drowning" which bearing in mind the EFR is being done as a prequal to my Rescue Diver course I'd have thoiught would be included?

Please help - I've got my exam tomorrow