Being Fat, Diving with PADI and Medicals

[stewbie]

Originally Posted by yazzyfooty

As a BSAC member and now being over the age of 50 I have to have and pay for a yearly medical before I can dive with the club. Under the age of 50 then its 3 yearly.

A bit different to self certifying as the wanting to dive may lead people to lie, possibly.

Is that the full HSE medical, or simply a certificate of "fitness to dive."
The two are different as you are no doubt aware

[rossbale28]

Firstly, thank you for your comments/posts.

Wifey has checked by BP tonite - 150/90 - not as bad as 160/100 but still not good

Will go and see the doc and see what they say, probably just lose weight, possibly some tabs I guess?!?!

Have re-read PADI Medical Statement (thanks Vonny), I've scored "Relative Risk Conditons" in 3 sections - maybe this is someone trying to tell me something :-) Will probably take 6 months out (wifey thinks 12, but don't know if I could go without diving that long - not been diving long, but got the bug bigtime).

Are there any dry courses apart from EFR worth doing, ie Equipment Specialist etc - may get these done while I'm dry, then concentrate on the divey skills later on.

Any other suggestions would be great, will also polish up on my table use etc whilst I'm dry.

Will keep the updates coming, depending on what the doc says, may go and see a dive doc later on.

Ross.

[machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

Interesting that .... at the recent HSE Recreational Diving Industry meeting, it was reported that there was concern over new divers being "coached" on their self assessments ... with asthma, prescritpion drugs and obesity being identified as common themes. A sad statistic regarding the number of children who lost their fathers as a consequence was also reported....
Mal

Is this reported anywhere? I'd be interested to see more detail.

[machiavelli]

Originally Posted by divingfiredog

I was under the impression that BSAC only require self medical certification now.

The branch/DO might require a doctor's medical. I don't know if they are allowed to, but I am aware of branches which do. The vast majority of BSAC divers now self cert.

[stewbie]

As do non-BSAC divers.

My point was that as a PADI professional, I need a HSE medical yearly. A BSAC instructor doesn't. I can't possibly see how this can be seen as equality. Both instructors are equally responsible for the safety of their students, yet only one set are examined physically and "allegedly" certified as being physically capable of the job.

I actually DM for a company that charge enough to cover entrance fees and air fills, with no profit being made. Doesn't sound that different to the majority of BSAC clubs does it?

[machiavelli]

Originally Posted by stewbie

As do non-BSAC divers.

My point was that as a PADI professional, I need a HSE medical yearly. A BSAC instructor doesn't. I can't possibly see how this can be seen as equality. Both instructors are equally responsible for the safety of their students, yet only one set are examined physically and "allegedly" certified as being physically capable of the job.

I actually DM for a company that charge enough to cover entrance fees and air fills, with no profit being made. Doesn't sound that different to the majority of BSAC clubs does it?

It must be different enough to create an 'at work' situation in the eyes of the HSE. I agree it's an anomaly.

[uwila]

Originally Posted by stewbie

As do non-BSAC divers.

My point was that as a PADI professional, I need a HSE medical yearly. A BSAC instructor doesn't. I can't possibly see how this can be seen as equality. Both instructors are equally responsible for the safety of their students, yet only one set are examined physically and "allegedly" certified as being physically capable of the job.

I actually DM for a company that charge enough to cover entrance fees and air fills, with no profit being made. Doesn't sound that different to the majority of BSAC clubs does it?

The HSE regulations are not in place to ensure the safety of the students. They are there to ensure the safety of the instructor and anyone else who is 'working'. If BSAC instructors are 'paid', then they too need to adhere to the full range of requirements laid down by the HSE (documentation, letters of appointment, medical, safety equipment and personnel)

Having said that, the HSE are trying to make students aware of safety concerns. Their approach is to suggest that instructors/LDS who have all the required paper work and safety equipment are safer, and that anyone who hasn't is potentialy unsafe.

It is important to note that the HSE consider 'payment in kind' as equivalent to cash payments. What this means is that if a BSAC student pays for the petrol, entrance fee to Stoney or for the fills as a 'thank you' to the instructor, then the instructor is 'working'. Of course, proving it might be difficult for the HSE and so far they haven't persued this agressively, but this was given as a reason why PADI DMs who don't get paid are still regarded as being 'at work' when I questioned one of the HSE bods at the Dive Show in October.

Cheers, Chris

[stewbie]

Difficult one isn't it.

I've been looking at local BSAC branches (who never seem to reply to emails), and most of them seem to require additional subscriptions in the first year to "pay for cost of training."

Club compressors = free air?

Now all you need is some form of lift scheme where the instructor is ferried to the dive site, or an inland site entry fee paid out of club funds.....

Isn't that a form of not for profit payment? (but may well be the wrong forum and thread for this)

I just think it is a matter of time before HSE start coming after BSAC instructors

[Janos]

Originally Posted by stewbie

Club compressors = free air?

Now all you need is some form of lift scheme where the instructor is ferried to the dive site, or an inland site entry fee paid out of club funds.....

Isn't that a form of not for profit payment? (but may well be the wrong forum and thread for this)

I just think it is a matter of time before HSE start coming after BSAC instructors

If teaching, then entrance fees to quarries, air fills, petrol to the dive site, are all legitimate expenses, and are tax deductable. As long the amount of money you receive doesn't exceed your expenses, then you are not making a profit and so are clearly not at work.

If you are DMing for an instructor or school, then although you might not be making a profit, the school or instructor is, and so the dive is "at work".

The HSE have no interest in amateur diving. I believe they have said as much to BSAC HQ on many occasions. I was at an HSE conference last week and was ralking to a few people informally and again the message I was getting was that they are interested in profit-making organisations.

Re: higher club fees in your first year, many clubs have a joining fee in the first year. In my dive club, (although not hypothecated) this it is generally used to pay for equipment for the club. Equipment hire is free to Ocean Divers and trainee Ocean Divers, as they don't have their own kit yet, and they are the ones that use it the most. I can't remember the last time I borrowed club kit for the weekend.

Janos

PS - I do think that the HSE offer some very useful advice. All the people I've spoken with have been very friendly and helpful. I'd also recommend their Diving Risk Assessment DVD, whether you're an amateur or professional instructor.

[Steve S]

Hi Ross,

I won't go over what others have said but I would advise you to either reduce or stop intake of caffeine my test at my last medical was high enough to make a return in 3 week appointment necessary, I did a search on the t'interweb and it listed caffeine as a problem so I went cold turkey, couldn't sleep for 2 days but on my retest I was lower than I have ever been despite having ''white coat syndrome''

Stewbie, who would pay for the HSE medicals BSAC or the clubs? if it did come to pass it would be the death of small club's, I have spent over £300 putting students through training this year, as I don't accept any expenses whatsoever, ergo I am an amateur, and not diving for profit or reward, so would not be willing to undergo a HSE medical to instruct.

The assumption that PADI is safer than BSAC because of the mandatory medical is quite frankly bo**ocks, I know of folk who ''build up'' to a medical a few weeks beforehand, and then return to ''normal'' after all it's just like an mot, only valid at that precise moment.

Good luck with your fitness improvement Ross.

Safe diving,
Steve

Safe diving