Panic at Depth......

[Chris Hall]

<font color='#728FCE'>My partner Liz suffers some very similar symptoms at around 30m, no matter what the viz or conditions. She becomes apprehensive and says that her heart is thumping.

Usually at this point Liz uses a short set of signals which gets me to her asap for hand holding and reassurance. That tends to clear it up and she can carry on with the dive. We have been talking about chatting to DAN or DDRC to see where it is the narks or an anxcity(?) attack.

[abucksdiver]

<font color='#000080'>(In response to the message Peter K posted...)
...and never once did he say he checked his guages...


abucks

[Andy Phillips]

Hi,

Ok, PeterK's post pretty comprehensivly covered every feeling I had on the Kyarra, I won't go into a long post, but, I went a smig further, I shot from 35 to 20M and then won the battle sufficiently to get myself back on the wreck, admitidly I just sat in the same spot for 10mins, but I got back to the wreck.

Check the gauges, nut's, do you really think that you are thinking that clearly, it is all you can do to control your mind to the limited extent that you do not actually commit suicide.

The bottom line is that is an extreme lesson. It teaches you to respect what you do. It has to be said I have done more than 200 dives since then, it doesn't get me the same way. But, it was this dive and subsiquent loss of mental control that taught me more than all the trouble free dives ever will.

I took me a couple of really gentle dives in Stoney to truly recover, and as I have mentioned before, I quite happlly swim in and out of anything put infront of me with little or no vis, but I feel it is thanks to the fact that I understand what it is to panic that allows me the sense of calm I now feel.

Good post Peter,

Take care,

Andrew

[Norseman]

<font color='#0000FF'>I've had a CO2-hit myself at 37 meters and it had the same features.
I've come to the understanding it was because of shallow breathing during photographing. My lungs filled up with that nasty CO2 that gives you anxiety, makes you short of breath and leaves you with a desire to take the elevator.
I'd read about this beforehand and understood what it was. A few deep breaths (Didn't feel deep at all) and a shallow ascend gave me my confidence back at 35-34 meters. Of course I was narked too, so all of a sudden I just couldn't understand how it was possible to feel insecure at only 37 meters depth!

By that time I'd had about 120 dives so I can't say I'm really inexperienced. Obviously I have a lot to learn still, though.

He who thinks he's finished learning is not finished learning, but finished.

Kyrre

[peter k]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (andyp @ Oct. 07 2003,14:33)]Check the gauges, nut's, do you really think that you are thinking that clearly, it is all you can do to control your mind to the limited extent that you do not actually commit suicide.

Hi Andy,
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I was badly narked on the same wreck as the story I posted above. I'd actually started typing what happened to me and that's what made me remember that website.
Anyhoo, checking gauges, that's all I did! Sitting at 50-55mtrs on air, on my lonesome, narked and all I could get my brain round doing was checking gauges. I'd look at my contents, then look at my 'pooter, then look at my contents again as it felt like forever since I last checked, then went back to my 'pooter again. This probably only went on for a minute or so(if even) but I must have went constantly from one to the other until I finally snapped out of it, figured out where I was and did something about it. Out of the whole dive this is all I can recall! This one minute long episode.

Never again will I go to that depth just for the sake of it!

Peter

[JohnK]

Never mind the 30m hits - I`ve had exactly the same events at Cape at 17m for no apparent reason apart from 1m vis, cold and dark.

I have learnt to deal with these events by:

1. recognising that it is a hit
2. Focussing on something to clear the head (usually a rock)
3. control my breathing.

Interestingly I also get `hits` in warmer climes at about 25m but they are different, my heart starts to beat faster and this drives all the psychological responses etc. Again I learn to recognise the events and focus on the fact that as I know its a hit I can deal with it - either by ascending or just stopping and looking at/fiddling with my camera controls.

Wierd isnt it.??

[Bob Cooper]

You're all on the right wavelength here......It is so refreshing to hear this. &nbsp;Much better than the &quot;I can handle narcosis&quot; rubbish spouted out by so many on these forums.

I had a bad narcosis experience in my early days, at Stoney Cove, at about 20m. &nbsp;I freaked, couldn't seem to get enough air from my reg. spat it out and tried breathing through my nose! &nbsp;These sort of things happen when breathing air. &nbsp;That experience taught me a valuable lesson.

A few years ago, me and a buddy did some &quot;experiments&quot; in a quarry in North Wales. &nbsp;We set each other simple mathematical tasks to solve whilst at 15m. &nbsp;Guess what? &nbsp;I couldn't do simple subtraction and division.

How about the research where two subjects played chess, one in a chamber at 40ft (12m) and one at ambient. &nbsp;They played a few games and then swapped over. &nbsp;Guess what? &nbsp;The guy at 40ft always lost!

Yes, narcosis does exist, it screws you up and you can't &quot;handle&quot; it.

Good thread by the way!

Bob

[Gavin Yates]

<font color='#000F22'>Just to add my 0.02p

I remember getting narked on the Breda in about 16m - head went dizzy - not fun.

Since then I kinda anticipate the trigger feelings and generally cope. But that's no immunity !

Funny story - I was in Loch Lomond on Sunday doing the Black Wall which is just a sheer 200m drop-off. One of my mates was doing a 100m trimix dive so three of us were doing a spot of back-up - helped him with the gear, put the shot in etc.

I went to just over 50 and was fine - I'm sure that I was narked but was easily able to control bouyancy and was having a wee look about for about 15 mins then started a slow ascent - at about 46m I started to hear a ringing in my ears that got louder and louder.

I remembered reading an article on deep air that had stories of bells ringing in the ears - a sign that black out could be round the corner.

But apart from the ringing I was co-ordinated and I checked all my valve, gauges etc. After five minutes the ringing turned into a long drawn out note and then died like a siren being turned off.

I continued my slow trip upwards and got out of the water after nearly 80 minutes.

I told the guys about my strange experience and then they told me ...

... it was a speedboat propellor that we'd all heard. I was the only one that didn't recognise it.

Narcosis is something we all get. I'd rather be honest about it and alter my diving accordingly.

[Ben Harris]

<font color='#8D38C9'>Narced in wast at about 10m.

Very hot from carrying gear, heart pounding, breathing hard, over thermaled for water temp and therefore dehydrated. Head went mental. Calmed down when I hit the thermocline at 25 m. &nbsp;The next week I was fine at 45m. Different days for different people!

[Liz Hall]

<font color='#FF00FF'>A really big thank you to Martin for starting this thread. And everyone else who has been adding their stories. Most of the time I tend to do a lot of reading on the YD site. But I see Chris has already mentioned my wobblers in this thread so I decided to speak out and tell my tale in person. I have been really worried about this. I did not realise so many other folk went through exactly the same stuff.

My problem is that I get this feeling repeatedly. Obviously I am alive to tell the tale but the truth is I wondered if these indicated that I really ought not to be diving at all. The funny thing is I am so exhilerated to have survived and made it back to dry land I &quot;forget&quot; how bad it was.

I should say first that I have have had one or two regular &quot;panic&quot; attacks as I understand them to be defined. That is to say I am in a situation where I have a problem (once got stuck in a crack in the rocks... once got flapped about on a line in a current I had never experienced before and had mask pulled off etc) and first I experienced a feeling of panic and then I found a solution and then I pulled myself out of the mess. These are the regular learning curves that we all hear about as we gain more diving experience. BUT THESE &quot;OTHER&quot; &quot;THINGS&quot; that sometimes happen to me underwater IN NO WAY resemble the sorts of panicky feelings I had above. They are something else and until I read this thread I thought I was the only one who had had them!...

It started when I first took a guided group around a 30m wreck. We were in the Tropics so vis was fantastic and there were no other stressors. But suddenly I felt my heart beating like a drum and it was SO LOUD and I was completely glued to my instruments and my legs turned to jelly and my vision narrowed to a pinprick and reason gave way to blind panic and I felt like I was going to die. The scary bit here is that I was at the time working as a Dive Master and supposed to be leading this dive! As soon as I remembered this and turned the focus off myself and thought about the group I was leading I was resumed to total sanity and my sense came back and all was well. But I was shaken. It seemed I had a mental problem where I needed to be looking after others or I lost my marbles... I soon got used to this 30m dive and familiarity meant from then on all was well.

Then it happened again a few months later. Chris took me on some deeper excursions. Again these were in crystal clear water but deeper than I had ever been. We went to around 50m and once again I lost it. The voices in my head were screaming and I could hardly make out what was being yelled. But the basic message was &quot;you should not be here&quot; &quot;this is mad&quot; &quot;you are going to die&quot; etc. But to say it was that clear is misleading. It would be more appropriate to say that suddenly all I could think was &quot;AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH -FFFFFUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK - HHHHHHHEEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPP&quot;
And that was when I was able to signal to Chris that I needed to touch him. Somehow this reassuring arm grip was enough to steady the pure hell that had started in my head and as we moved from 50 to 45 m to mists lifted and I started looking at the dive as a dive to enjoy again.

And then most recently one of these same head trips got a grip on me in my first attempts at UK diving. And suddenly my tolerance is 20 - 25m. But of course the vis is not gin clear and the cold is a factor too

Because these events were all happening at different depths I kept thinking narcosis may be a contributing factor but I probably have something else going on here too. I even wondered if there are other physiological factors that give me these feelings. Because I had always heard other divers describe narcosis as a &quot;drunk-like&quot; feeling that was quite pleasant. In fact in my very early diving when I did the maths test etc I remember giggling and laughing and &quot;feeling narced&quot;. So this terror and hell that has been my recent experience could not be anything to do with narcosis. I also wondered if I am more susceptible to it because I do not drink alcohol or take mood altering substances any more (because of serious earlier abuse) and if I have left my bio-chemistry somewhat distorted and that is why I have such a severe reaction.

Thing is I keep on diving. And not just because of Chris. So thanks again to all who have written there stuff here. It looks like it is simply that old chestnut. And hopefully next time it happens to me (which it surely will) I will remember the YD thread and come out alive and not so alone!

Thanks
Liz