Oxygen toxicity treatment

[quoggle]

What is the Initial treatment for oxygen toxicity?
Apart from removing the casulty from the oxygen source.

[big_si]

As far as I know there is no further treatment necessary? (I'm sure I'll be corrected if there's more info on this! )

The major problem if suffering a Ox Tox hit whilst diving is the fact that you're underwater. Obvious risk of losing reg and drowning.

[daveb0000]

Originally Posted by quoggle

What is the Initial treatment for oxygen toxicity?
Apart from removing the casualty from the oxygen source.

I think you have answered your own question IF the person is out of the water.

but under the water i would of thought that so long as you can get your buddy to the surface and at this point your buddy is still breathing, then you could remove the reg and allow the diver to breathe as normally as a fitting diver can.

mmmmmm buddy under water you have a deco obligation, buddy starts to fit from ox tox. then you will have decisions to make

[Scuby]

Depends if it's underwater or during O2 admin as a result of suspected DCI.

Underwater remove the source (if possible), and help them out of the water (certainly wouldn't want to continue a dive, even if they appear to recover)! They may return to consciousness, they may not, but whatever just help them up and out (once safe to lift them, so not when they're tensed up). If you have a deco requirement then if they're still breathing and conscious then probably best to complete the deco, unless there are other more pressing concerns that mean you need to get them out of the water ASAP.

If the problem happens during oxy admin on the surface, then remove long enough to remove any symptoms of oxtox, and put them back on O2. DCI would be the primary concern, so keep the O2 on as much as possible while avoiding oxtox.

Obviously after any oxtox, wherever it happens or for whatever reasons, hospital treatment from professionals should be sought ASAP.

David

[gibbon]

Originally Posted by Scuby

Underwater remove the source (if possible), and help them out of the water (certainly wouldn't want to continue a dive, even if they appear to recover)!

What criteria would you use for "if possible"?

There are 3 that I can imagine:

1) a secure dry habitat
2) a gas switching block
3) a BOV on RB

I recommend that everyone reads this as a lot of effort has gone into it and it is for everyones benifit if it is understood or indeed improved.

http://www.cedricverdier.com/writings/Convulsions.pdf

[big_si]

Remove the O2 source could just mean to remove the toxic O2 source, this could be done by lifting them above the MOD of their gas.

[gibbon]

Originally Posted by big_si

Remove the O2 source could just mean to remove the toxic O2 source, this could be done by lifting them above the MOD of their gas.

And would you do this during the clonic seizure phase of the tox with the risk of an embolism? If so then what formula are you going to use to calculate if it is safe to ascend to the MOD of the gas you think the toxing diver is using? And what if they are above the MOD for the gas you think they are breathing?

In what way do you want to deliver a half dead diver to the surface and how are you going to justify it? is perhaps the question we should all ask ourselves.... to have a proceedure is great, simplifying that proceedure is very difficult if you want the proceedure to be all encompassing and usable.

The easiest proceedure is to get to the surface asap, this is not always going to be the right answer.

I suggest that "you" agree a proceedure with people you dive with so you all know what to expect - that way others that are available to assist will be best able to do so.

"Remove valuables and launch" is a very solid proceedure for individuals other than the toxing diver - to achieve something more realistic for the health of the toxing diver takes a lot of training.

[big_si]

Originally Posted by jonny

And would you do this during the clonic seizure phase of the tox with the risk of an embolism? If so then what formula are you going to use to calculate if it is safe to ascend to the MOD of the gas you think the toxing diver is using? And what if they are above the MOD for the gas you think they are breathing?

Yep, as you point out, there are lots of variables to an originally very short question. I don't think anyone would disagree with you there! If you are lucky enough to have all that info and be able to evaluate all these variables and any variations in kit config in the short time you have to act whilst undergoing the stress of a toxing buddy then I commend you.

Originally Posted by jonny

In what way do you want to deliver a half dead diver to the surface and how are you going to justify it? is perhaps the question we should all ask ourselves.... to have a proceedure is great, simplifying that proceedure is very difficult if you want the proceedure to be all encompassing and usable. The easiest proceedure is to get to the surface asap, this is not always going to be the right answer.

Exactly... It IS very difficult and who is to say which approach you choose and who is to say WHAT is the correct approach for any situation and even if is the correct approach then what is the chance of them actually surviving it? I was offering ONE possible approach for a situation.

Originally Posted by jonny

I suggest that "you" agree a proceedure with people you dive with so you all know what to expect - that way others that are available to assist will be best able to do so. "Remove valuables and launch" is a very solid proceedure for individuals other than the toxing diver - to achieve something more realistic for the health of the toxing diver takes a lot of training.

I am lucky enough to regularly dive with a buddy with whom I took part in a Tech Rescue Course with Mark Powell and so we have an idea on what to expect and some procedures to try to deal with it. Although this only gave us a grounding in what is involved and possible approaches to take and have only practiced these a number of times and none under non-training conditions I think we took away a fair bit from the course which would give us a better basic knowledge than some. More training would obviously improve this knowledge and would always be recommended and something I'd be keen on.



Out of interest... Has anyone actually dealt with a toxing diver in real life? What was the situation and how did you deal with it?

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by jonny

What criteria would you use for "if possible"?

There are 3 that I can imagine:

1) a secure dry habitat
2) a gas switching block
3) a BOV on RB

Pretty much, yeah. Hence why I went on to say something like get them out of the water by lifting when they've stopped convulsing.

This should all be taught on an advanced nitrox course, but can't hurt for those who haven't done the course to have an idea of what to do - better than just assuming they need to lift them straight away (risking burst lung, etc), rushing unnecessarily to the surface (risking DCI, etc), or ripping their reg out (risking drowning, etc).

David

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by quoggle

What is the Initial treatment for oxygen toxicity?
Apart from removing the casulty from the oxygen source.

Remove the casualty from depth. The CNS clock counts down on the surface no matter what mix you are breathing.

If they had a hit at depth they probably have lots of other problems caused by the blackout and oxygen is probably just what they need.

There is NEVER a reason to not give a diving casualty oxygen.